32 points

To be fair “He is in this race and I support him” is like saying “He’s one of the candidates of all time”. It is a milquetoast, borderline sarcastic endorsement.

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14 points

It’s what republicans do. Back your team. It’s one of their best plays to win.

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5 points
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No kidding, because she knows he’s going to lose, but if he’s unwilling to step down it’s literally the only play she has at this point.

No one is going to come out and pretend Biden is some great candidate, because he’s not. No amount of fake-hype is going to change his chances.

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1 point

You SEE the fallout from Project 2025 becoming mainstream?

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1 point

I see the polling that matches up with every lost campaign going back decades.

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38 points

Biden doesn’t make policy decisions standing at podium reading a teleprompter. He sits in meeting and has discussions with advisors and has follow up discussions and rewrites policies and discusses votes and rewrites again with further discussions. That’s who I’m voting for and I think he is still able to do that.

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16 points

They know this already. They aren’t going to be educated on the matter. They’re not voting and working hard to convince others not to as well.

The best thing you can do is call this out when you see it. Ask them to answer how they’d prefer life under Trump’s thumb. Ask them who else could defeat Trump that is running right now. Ask them what are our other options. They’ll do their best to bullshit through responses, but at the end of the day-

They know we have none.

Ask them how they’re support a free Palestine, while being able to see Trump suggesting Israel “finish the job” but that is somehow not enough to vote against him.

These people cannot answer any of these questions in good faith. I’ve asked them, and tons of others have. They distract and counter with bad faith bullshit. Then they disappear- only to reappear elsewhere with the same bullshit.

You cannot reason with, or inform to educate them. They know the facts. And they’re here to urge you not to vote against Trump anyway.

What does that tell you?

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2 points

Why is this particular political structure and electoral process and set of parties the best? Can’t we be more creative? We can do so much more than vote in this same process which makes us choose the ‘lesser evil’ to save democracy, every election for decades now. I can’t bring myself to legitimize the US and still feel a clean conscience any longer.

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8 points
*

Oh we can do a HELL of a lot better. We have weeds here that are more charismatic. But this is where we are because a large portion of our population doesn’t like to do shit about politics until it’s too late- which is a cycle that resets every four years.

America is essentially a cautionary tale on how not paying attention hurts people.

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1 point

That there are a lot of bot accounts that can quickly inflame an issue with a pretty obvious grain of truth to it. And that there doesn’t seem to be much of a response other than “Biden is better than Trump” or “I support Biden due to his past competence”. Which feels like a very nothing burger of an answer, and instead gives plenty more questions rather than reassurance for Biden’s campaign. Trump is an dangerous idiot and I’d be the first to say not vote for Trump, a frankly sane and common sentiment. Honestly, the more time goes on, the more it feels like the arguments that are posited for voting for Biden without answering basic questions actually feel like they are being posed by bot accounts.

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5 points
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Biden’s accomplishments have been posted time and again in these arguments. I’m not going to repeat them here as all the times they’ve been listed clearly has done nothing.

The fact remains- you vote for an administration- NOT a single man. And his administration has brought a positive.

He is better than Trump because he isn’t a felonious rapist.

That shout be enough. If it isn’t, your president isn’t really your biggest problem.

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-6 points

For 4 years? We need 2 vice presidents if biden doesn’t drop out for me to vote for his dying brain

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5 points

If the president dies and the vice president takes over then the a new president appoints a new vice president subject to congressional approval.

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3 points

Aite I guess biden gets my vote then. Mybad i wasn’t knowledgeable about the process.

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189 points
Removed by mod
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110 points
*

And preferably, name someone who has announced their candidacy.

A list of people you’d like in the job isn’t as relevant. I would’ve accepted almost any of the names people had floated, had any of them publicly shown interest.

But here we are with people often demanding Jon Stewart and Michelle Obama throw their hats in the ring, and that’s two people who keep saying they aren’t interested.

Edit: the shit people downvote here.

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39 points

No one who wants to run in 2028 is going to run against the incumbent President unless that President is incredibly weak.

Biden in 2020 was solid, but even he had a close win over Trump. Biden 2022 was starting to show signs of wear (understandably so), but planning for 2024 made sense. Not my favorite choice, but I don’t think it was necessarily wrong. 2024 SOTU Biden scared Republicans so much they made up all sorts of drug rumors.

Jump to 1st Debate 2024 Biden. That was his first real misstep. Biden can recover from this.

Biden was far from my first choice in 2020, but he’s done a great job. He needs to get out there and prove it. Showcase what he’s done and pitch a plan for a future America.

Right now I don’t know if Biden can do that. I saw parts of it during the debate, but I want more. Biden should be able to convince his own party he has what it takes to win. Biden isn’t incredibly weak at the moment, but he’s getting weaker.

At the end of the day I’m voting for Biden (or his replacement) because I believe in Democrat policy. I’m not just voting “against Trump”, I believe Democratic policy is better for Americans and the American people. Republican policy, especially under Trump, isn’t even worth considering, it’s fascism and I don’t mean that hyperbolically.

If Biden can’t beat Democrats, Biden can’t beat Trump and that’s a big fuckin concern to me.

Also, since you’re looking for a name, Newsom has made it clear he is going to run in 2028. Will he run if Biden steps down? That’s debatable. It’s going to be a tough race and a loss in 2024 probably means no chance of running in 2028. There is a chance no one can beat Trump (and that’s even scarier).

(Also to anyone on the fence, Fuck Trump. Get your ass to the voting booth on election day and vote Biden.)

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5 points
*

They keep asking for names then stop responding when you give them one. Hilariously unserious people who just want to scream that we have zero other options as loud as possible.

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14 points

The ones who aren’t interested are usually more trustworthy?

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11 points

You’re not wrong (generally speaking…I’m not interested, I’m entirely untrustworthy, and no one who knows me wants me in that position), but they’re not going to run so it’s moot.

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3 points

Vermin Supreme!

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-2 points

And preferably, name someone who has announced their candidacy.

Marianne Williamson. I want President Williamson. She has announced her candidacy. I will gladly support the Democrats if she’s their candidate.

Otherwise, I’ll probably support the Greens.

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-10 points
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Whining about being downvoted (BY ONE PERSON IN THIS CASE) is a great way to ensure that I downvote you.

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13 points

Fair, and I expected that. But it’s frustrating as hell sometimes.

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-13 points

We’d love to, but Biden killed primaries and caucuses. And there’s not a Democrat in existence that will go up against the DNC’s hand-picked candidate after their behavior over the last decade.

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14 points

When was the last time an incumbent president held primaries?

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4 points

So none of them care enough to speak publicly. Got it.

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20 points

I wonder how much of it is just undermining Biden. I lump this in with the “just any third party” people. It doesn’t make sense unless your goal is to just undermine Biden to bemoan his situation and the party without rallying behind something more specific. The “just any third party” implies the person is equally stoked about the chances of a Green Party or a Libertarian candidate, which makes no sense given the vastly different platforms.

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-1 points

I wonder how much of it is just undermining Biden.

100% of it. Either directly, or via useful idiots.

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20 points

To be clear, I’m planning to vote against trump unless somehow biden gets replaced with someone worse than trump (~0% chance that happens, but still)

that said, I don’t know a single person who’s happy with biden or excited that he’s the candidate, and frankly I doubt the sanity of anyone excited about him as much as I doubt bidens sanity (whereas with people voting for trump the insanity is crystal clear). I don’t know for sure who would be better, kamala might be the best bet, but being able to get through a debate without gibberish word salad sentences should be an obvious requirement

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8 points

It should be, but the time and place for it was in the primaries, not when you’re up against another word salad candidate with a die hard rock solid base.

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5 points

lmao what primary? the one where there were zero serious alternatives because everyone even suggesting candidates were yelled at for hElPiNg tRuMp simply by contesting biden?

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4 points

Isn’t Kamala thoroughly disliked?

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2 points

Less than Biden was, even before the debate, but only she gets described that way.

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1 point

Yeah, but not to the same level as biden for people who are on the fence between biden and trump.

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2 points

The point is that is a fine viewpoint to have, but to loudly just bemoan problem rather than proposing the preferred alternative is hardly useful. It has all the downsides of undermining the still presumptive candidate without any concrete hint of building up an alternative.

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-9 points

I don’t know a single person

This is the problem with Leftists. Y’all censor or cancel anyone with opposing viewpoints, and then you get trapped by your own bubble and confused by how it doesn’t jive with reality, so you make up conspiracy theories to explain the difference.

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1 point

Do you know anyone excited about biden?

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16 points
*

I remember when RBG said the same thing. “Who would you rather see on the court other than me?” The answer is literally anyone else who isn’t a christofascist rapist, but they ended up with that one christofascist rapist.

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7 points

And you’re not able to see the difference between a guaranteed nomination and a national election?

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4 points
*

Good luck dragging that corpse past the finish line

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8 points

“‘Get On Board Or Shut The Fuck Up’ is not a particularly compelling pro-democracy bumper sticker,” he said.

Jon Stewart gets it, why can’t you?

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7 points

Offering to run instead of Biden at this point would basically be political suicide, so it’s no wonder nobody has stepped up. If Biden backs out though the math changes significantly. This is t a very convincing argument.

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10 points

It may also be a little late to introduce a new candidate, unless they have great name recognition. Betcha Bernie 2.0 would mobilize a goodly number of people, while centrists would hold their noses, and just vote for Not Trump.

Bernie isn’t running, and Biden isn’t quitting, so we take what we can get. At this point, I would literally vote for a loofah if it ran against Trump.

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5 points

At this point, I would literally vote for a loofah if it ran against Trump.

Then we don’t need name recognition. Any middle of the road Democrat will do.

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1 point

The name recognition is just in case other voters are pickier / more discerning. If it’s someone super cool, they may even pull in people who were not going to vote. Yes, I would literally vote for a rusty bottle cap over Trump, but others may have different requirements.

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11 points
*

Someone on lemmy said this Sunday that France leftist successfully formed a global left party in 4 weeks, surely Democrats could find a candidate in 4 months.

I want to see AOC as your president.

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6 points

Turns out she will actually be old enough to become president even before election day. And she certainly has the name recognition. Again, Biden is not likely to step down - and at this point, I would vote for an empty tube of toothpaste over Trump.

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3 points

The French situation is very different and the election was a little more complicated than that. They (left and center parties)didn’t form a global left party, but only allegedly collaborated on not running against each other in some areas.

This is not an option in the USA presidential election where there only are two candidates to begin with. Introducing a third candidate would only split the votes.

It would be nice to see AOC run eventually, but it wouldn’t be a good idea right now. Hopefully both Trump and Biden will be to old next time, so both parties need to find younger candidates.

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-6 points

Europeans understand that the American voting system is different than the European one challenge (impossible)

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2 points
*

Dude, anyone. Who in the democratic party is more corrupt than Trump? To paraphrase Biden himself, there are at least fifty people that could win against Trump.

I hope Biden is one of the fifty right now… But I am not certain.

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7 points
*

The current vice president, who also is the vice presidential candidate, and who Biden’s campaign itself says is qualified to replace him if he’s incapacitated? You know, the one that’s already effectively a candidate for the presidency because no one believes Biden will last 4 years?

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1 point
*
Deleted by creator
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-5 points

America will NOT elect a Black woman. Independent voters have already been fed four years of bullshit about her. Remember all the conspiracy theories about how Biden was going to immediately step down after the 2020 election and hand the Presidency over to Kamala, which would be apocalyptically bad because…well, you know…mumble mumble

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-4 points

K. How does she poll against Trump?

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12 points

How does Biden right now? She’s already fully factored in when people think about Biden anyway.

And to answer your question, the Ipsos poll from July 2 puts her within one point of Trump which is actually much better than Biden right now.

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5 points

I dunno I could probably win, not exactly steep competition lol

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4 points

Democrats can’t name someone until Biden agrees or they have a majority ready to try to force him out. It really is Biden’s decision to step aside. The issue is the polls are saying he should step aside, and it looks like he wants to lose.

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2 points

No, the pundits are saying he should pull out.

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-2 points

Wrong… the polls are saying he should. Do you want to beat Trump or are you hoping for a miracle?

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1 point

Kamala Harris. Pete Buttigieg. Fucking anyone else. I’d rather vote for Mitt Romney than Donald Trump; we don’t need Biden.

But your question is obviously made in bad faith. You will argue that anyone we name is unelectable. Meanwhile, the framework of the discussion ignores Biden’s own questionable electability.

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1 point

I don’t think the opinion “the man who has control of the nuclear arsenal is showing signs of senility and should not serve another 4 years regardless of who replaces him” is not an unreasonable one

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26 points
*

When the current only alternative is someone with clearly worse faculties and intentions, it obviously fucking is. Again, name who you think can beat him. Go ahead. Take into account the entire current political climate. We’ll wait.

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7 points

this is kinda a ridiculous request. The DNC should be the ones actively finding and presenting alternatives. If it was any other election year what if something happened to their primary candidate?

No one publicly shows interest because the party prevents any alternative. Anyone trying to run is accused of trying to break up the party, look at what happened to Bernie.

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3 points

The Polymarket prediction markets gives odds for who will win the presidential election and who will win the democratic nominee. We can compare the odds of each candidate and use Bayes Theorem to determine their chances of winning the presidency if they secure the DNC nomination.

Here’s the results as of posting this comment:

Joe Biden: 27% Kamala Harris: 50% Michelle Obama: 100% Gavin Newsom: 66% Other: 50%

Obviously this doesn’t work perfectly (the Michelle Obama example especially is bizarre), but there is over $300M behind these numbers so people seem to think they’re at least somewhat accurate.

TLDR: there is a lot of money that thinks Joe Biden is one of the worst options

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1 point

Kucinich

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0 points

It wouldn’t be if there were an alternative who was not showing similar or worse signs of senility. When both of the only feasible candidates have the same issue, that issue is mostly moot.

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5 points

You don’t think if Biden stepped down and it was an open primary there wouldn’t be some good options?

Pete Buttigeig, Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer, anyone under 60 would make Trump look like a dottering old man in comparison

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-1 points

I disagree. My logic is as follows:
Premise 1. Joe Biden cannot beat Trump
Premise 2: Virtually any other democrat can beat Trump
Conclusion: If we want to beat Trump, Biden should step down and be replaced by virtually any other Democrat

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8 points

You say he can’t beat Trump, but he already beat healthcare, so who knows what else he can beat

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4 points

It was Medicare, but I understood this reference.

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2 points

Why can’t Joe beat Trump? Because he seems old and confuses things? You think that’s why people are voting for Trump?

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6 points

Because last time he beat Trump it was because Covid was the top worry and of course people want the party that promotes health care over Trump when their biggest fear is a global pandemic. Now peoples fears are money. You run the same campaign you ran in 2020 and you’ll lose.

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6 points

I’ll gladly take old and confused over actively malicious

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4 points

I mean, if you look at track records, Biden already beat Trump in 100% of previous elections.

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3 points

Biden only beat Trump the first time around because of historic voter turnout. Voters just aren’t as enthusiastic to keep Trump out this year.

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1 point

Yes. There’s partisans who vote Trump no matter what, but there’s also a pretty large number of “low information voters”. Rather than being necessarily dumb, many of these are people from all kinds of different walks of life who just don’t follow politics that closely and prefer to follow things like dating reality shows or sports instead. These people are not really aware of what happened on Jan 6 other than that there was some sort of riot at the Capitol. They know Trump was charged with a bunch of crimes, but don’t know if they were real crimes or just politics. And when these people see Trump lying confidently and Joe Biden being barely intelligible in response, they like Trump better.

It sucks, yes. But it’s reality. Democrats need someone who can answer Trump forcefully. Or they will lose.

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-8 points

This continues to be a disingenuous meme response. If they named a name you’d complain that they were trying to install their choice rather than have an open selection process.

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10 points
*

Try me. I’m waiting. No one has named a name.

My best alternative choice would be Bernie but I don’t think he’d actually beat Trump because he’d lose some centrists, doesn’t seem particularly less old, and hasn’t held presidential office before. What’s your choice?

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7 points

It’s two separate questions, and the second has basically only two answers: it’s either Harris or some sort of open contest voted on by the delegates. Most “replace” voices don’t care which of those options is selected nearly as much as they care that the guy who’s going to lose can’t be the nominee.

And my personal choice is “I don’t care”. Harris is fine, the governors are fine, Buttigieg is unlikely but fine. I’m not going to pretend the party or Biden’s own delegates is going to choose a progressive. None of them is going to cause a seismic shift in the candidate’s policy except for getting a chance to choose a better message on Israel and any will fulfill the need of ditching the losing incumbent who only made the race worse in his one key public appearance. Their one and only qualification is that unlike Biden, they might not lose. And that’s plenty for me.

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-1 points

Newsom with barrack Obama as VP

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0 points
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Deleted by creator
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0 points

I don’t think that’s a disingenuous response. I can name a lot of people I liked who ran in the primaries in '20 as well as a slew of up and coming names. I don’t think they have as strong a chance as Biden.

Like many have already said, I think that focusing on a lackluster debate (in which he actually responded well based on the content of his responses and the policy he promoted) is not the way to go about this.

As much as I like other names for the presidency, I think Biden is our best shot at staving off disaster and he did get a lot done with the Inflation Reduction Act. Another four years of that policy trajectory is definitely something I can get behind. That’s at least a step in the right direction.

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1 point

And I think Biden is going to lose and any of the shortlist names have a reasonable chance of injecting some life into the party and most importantly haven’t been fatally damaged, not by “a lackluster debate”, but by being unable to make coherent responses. Biden had lackluster debates in the 2020 primary, that didn’t invalidate him from being nominee, because it was just a poor performance, not indications that at least some of the time he’s incoherent.

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131 points

AOC is definitely a voice in politics I’ve come to respect. I can assume pretty confidently that her opinion is well founded and with the right intentions… if she thinks Biden is best option at this point, that tells me pretty conclusively that Biden is genuinely the best option at this point.

The debate shenanigans, the age, whatever: all of that is a fraction of a drop in the ocean compared to the shitstorm that would be Trump presidency. It doesn’t matter if any of us like Biden. Do you want a literal fascist running the country? If no, vote Biden. If yes, abstain / vote for literally anyone else.

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45 points

I wish it was possible to convince trump supporters that he’s literally not on their side

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42 points

I’ve been making pitches for the libertarian party to my trumpanzee coworkers. It’s a similar flavor of bullshit as the turds the GOP is already feeding them, so they’re somewhat susceptible to it.

No chance in hell I’ll be able to convince them to vote Biden, so burning a would-be Trump vote on the spoiler effect is the next best thing.

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5 points

One of his better nuggets for this crowd is his suggestion that they “take the guns away first and do [sic] process later”.

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-17 points

I’m sure you’re an excellent spokesperson for ideas you think are similar to maga bullshit.

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19 points

I’d really prefer another candidate, but under our current system and circumstances, Biden is our best option.

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3 points

That’s how democracy works. You rarely get to pick a candidate who is perfectly aligned with you. You pick the least bad option.

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4 points

The DNC is going to run this playbook again in four years. Stuff some establishment democrat down our throats “for the fate of democracy”. I agree that another Trump presidency would be terrible, but can the American people please get a real choice of which Democrat to vote for? Please DNC?

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4 points
*

Probably. And when that time comes, I’ll make the same pitch for whichever not-a-Nazi is running against the actual Nazi. Should it be better? Fuck yeah! But if we don’t play along, we get actual Nazi. I suspect we’ll rinse-and-repeat until we’re extinct; but I’d prefer to spend that time with as few Nazis in power as possible.

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64 points

Someone mentioned it in the thread about Elizabeth Warren supporting Biden. It isn’t odd that smart, anti-wealthy, and anti-Trump at all costs progressives are backing Biden, and wealthy Democrat donors and centrist Democrats are demanding change.

These people see the risk a new candidate would bring. The wealthy just want someone who reflects their image. Either candidate doesn’t really hurt their lifestyle.

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28 points

Part of it has been that Biden has been implementing a lot of progressive policies. He may not be the perfect progressive candidate, but he is a lot better than other options.

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7 points

Yet another reason why the wealthy class of the Democratic party wants him replaced.

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4 points

She didn’t though, she dodged the question and the Boston Globe called it support. If she wanted to support him staying in, she would have said that.

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3 points

It isn’t odd that smart, anti-wealthy, and anti-Trump at all costs progressives are backing Biden, and wealthy Democrat donors and centrist Democrats are demanding change.

The wealthy centrist Dems believe they’re in an excellent position to foist an even bigger turd on the party (I’ve seen Joe Manchin and Michael Bloomberg and - of fucking course - Hillary Clinton floated as “moderate” replacements to Far-Left Super Radical Joe Biden).

The younger and less influential (although hardly anti-wealthy - AOC is a prodigious fundraiser who represents one of the richest districts in the nation) politicians who have already stacked up political favors with the incumbent don’t want to see him casually replaced by an even more obnoxious neoliberal.

That doesn’t make Biden a strong choice. It doesn’t even make him an “anti-wealthy” choice (Biden was fully on board with the Wall Street bailouts under Bush and the Silicon Valley bailouts during his own term). It just makes him the “safe” choice for the AOC-aligned caucus, relative to an even more nakedly corporate convention insider pick.

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