https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/sciadv.adh2458#F1 has the plot of what the boundaries are and which are how messed up.

I haven’t been able to find the place where posts and comments are saved in the voyager app. Where do you find them?

Can’t believe I didn’t see that… Thank you so much!

I think it’s more a matter of going after someone randomly punching people in the face every now and then when there’s mass shootings and stuff even worse going on would be a bad use of resources, even though of course the person punching people is morally in the wrong. Similarly, encouraging people to reduce waste and cycle more is not a good use of resources, when companies are burning coal and rich people take their private jets everywhere.

I feel like this is the option that is most discussed in public discourse, which is the problem. If we discuss climate change through the lense of “Why don’t people bike, since driving is bad for the planet?” rather than “What structural changes (bike lanes, public transit, car-free city centers, etc.) can we offer to encourage people to cycle more?” or even “What are the biggest transport-related emissions (private jets, flying in fresh fruit from halfway across the world, using trucks for shipping, etc.) and how can we work as a society to eliminate them?”, then people will feel disenfranchised, and even if we all started cycling it wouldn’t help nearly as much as if we tackled the bigger corporate issues. It’s neither pragmatic nor fair to focus on individual action at the scale of single consumers.

Speaking from a US point of view, society is often structured in such a way that a lot of the solutions you offer are made significantly difficult for consumers, especially with lower income.

• sure, it’d be healthiest and best for the planet to eat vegan and cook at home, but if you have half an hour a day to find food you’ll buy what’s right there
• of course it’s be healthiest to walk and bike wherever you need to go, and best for the planet to use public transport when you can’t, but again, if you work two jobs far away, you do not have the luxury to consider these options. These people you can’t convince by giving them even more work to do in their already full and arduous days. You convince them by giving them better options and taking the rich people to task more, proportionally to their strain on society.

People simply aren’t well-enough off to be able to look beyond their own experience and want to improve the world as well. I think that’s why we need to champion worker’s rights as a big part of the push towards all this, too

I’m all in favour of everyone deciding this for themselves. Every person acting ethically is a good thing.

What I disagree with is people pushing other people to act ethically in the same ways when the impact is so small and their activism could focus on much bigger fish

I’d agree with your politics there, too. The poorer you make yourself, the more likely you are to live a moral life. Unfortunately, it’s very difficult to also make it a good, comfortable, safe life, and I think it’s a bit much to ask people to go that much against their own interests. (This varies from country to country of course, I’m sure there’s places where you’d be ok)

I don’t believe that we can defeat polluting corporations by not buying their products simply because we can’t completely buying products - many people aren’t in positions to be choosy and often the same companies own the “good” product that do the bad. We need the support of the government to be able to influence these giant corporations with regulations and taxes on pollution

Fair, I should have made the effort to use “poor” in quotations, too. I love the idea of mutual aid working that way. I guess I’d be worried about relying on it for anything as potentially life-or-death as healthcare, but that’s a few steps further down the line than we’re discussing here