Israel’s prime minister and senior figures with the Palestinian group are wanted for war crimes.

Archived version: https://archive.ph/xfGGI

You are viewing a single thread.
View all comments View context
5 points
*

I mean is there anything proving Hamas leaders intentionally planned any civilian deaths? They’re definitely not doing enough to stop them, but I don’t think I’ve seen anything specifically incriminating their top brass.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

They launched a brutal assault on literal ravers and then commenced to invade civilian homes. The fuck did you think they were planning to do there? They clearly did not go for military targets. Playing terrorist apologist is a seriously weird take on that matter.

permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points
*

They are money holders, and it was a well financed and coordinated attack. And they are in direct control even now as they try to negotiate ceasefire and hostage release.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

and it was a well financed and coordinated attack.

True enough, but there’s only so much you can do once the soldiers are actual fighting if you’re not on the field (especially when you don’t particularly care either way). That said, I haven’t seen anything since this “war” started that would serve as evidence to implicate, say, Sinwar in an international court of law. If he says “our plans didn’t involve attacking civilians our soldiers didn’t it out of their own accord” nobody can prove him wrong. Now I do think that’s actually what happened (from a strategic perspective Hamas has too much to lose and too little to gain by killing civilians during a military attack), but even if that’s not the case there’s simply too little evidence to prove it.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

Arrest warrant is not a sentence. If he’s brought to the court, he will have a chance to prove the lack of evidence. But even by proxy, leaders are responsible for the actions of their subordinates. Same way we attribute authorization given by leaders sitting in their “war rooms” to launch drone attacks or giving “go” to tactical teams to them and not individual actors.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-1 points

Then who orchestrated the attacks on only civilians? Hamas hurting civilians is nothing new. Both sides have been assholes long before this started. Everyone in the region would benefit from both parties being prosecuted.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points
*

Then who orchestrated the attacks on only civilians?

They… didn’t? That’s exactly what I’m talking about. The attack had clear military objectives (taking hostages is morally grey but still not the kind of atrocity we’re talking about). At least as far as I know everything you’ll think of when you hear the words “Oct 7 Hamas atrocity” can be passed as, and probably is, spontaneous violence caused by the fact that Gazans hate Israelis’ guts rather than any orders from the top brass. Now I’m not denying general Hamas terror; the shootings and suicide bombings definitely happen, but in a court of law everything we’re saying right now about October 7th would be thrown out as speculation, because it is.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point
*

would be thrown out as speculation, because it is.

Not sure how hostages and deaths are speculative evidence. Also what were the military objectives you alluded to? I only heard about the terror attacks.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-1 points

You’re right that it is possible that Hamas didn’t intend for the scale of civilian casualties that were seen on Oct. 7th, but even if that’s true then they are still responsible for not keeping their people from commiting said spontaneous violence. As the leaders of a militant faction, like a regular military they are responsible for training their soldiers (or equivalent) and keeping them in line during operations.

I’m actually more on the Frantz fannon school of thought about the necessity of violence against oppressors to overthrow colonial regimes, so I’m more amenable to hamas’ plight than most I think, but Oct. 7th is still pretty indefensible.

Having said all that, to make clear, I’m not defending Israel or their retributive genocide. Fuck them. But I don’t think we should go easy on Hamas’ war crimes either, so I don’t think the ICC is really ‘both-sides’-ing in this case.

permalink
report
parent
reply

Interesting Global News

!globalnews@lemmy.zip

Create post

What is global news?

Something that happened or was uncovered recently anywhere in the world. It doesn’t have to have global implications. Just has to be informative in some way.


Post guidelines

Title format

Post title should mirror the news source title.

URL format

Post URL should be the original link to the article (even if paywalled) and archived copies left in the body. It allows avoiding duplicate posts when cross-posting.

[Opinion] prefix

Opinion (op-ed) articles must use [Opinion] prefix before the title.


Rules

1. English only

Title and associated content has to be in English.

2. No social media posts

Avoid all social media posts. Try searching for a source that has a written article or transcription on the subject.

3. Respectful communication

All communication has to be respectful of differing opinions, viewpoints, and experiences.

4. Inclusivity

Everyone is welcome here regardless of age, body size, visible or invisible disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and expression, education, socio-economic status, nationality, personal appearance, race, caste, color, religion, or sexual identity and orientation.

5. Ad hominem attacks

Any kind of personal attacks are expressly forbidden. If you can’t argue your position without attacking a person’s character, you already lost the argument.

6. Off-topic tangents

Stay on topic. Keep it relevant.

7. Instance rules may apply

If something is not covered by community rules, but are against lemmy.zip instance rules, they will be enforced.


Companion communities

Icon attribution | Banner attribution

Community stats

  • 2.8K

    Monthly active users

  • 5.7K

    Posts

  • 14K

    Comments

Community moderators