lemm.ee

-10 points

5 months ago

Have you heard of a thing called depth or nuance? Not everything is as simple as one sentence.

Kids always die in wars. Does that mean war is never moral? No. I’m not okay with kids getting bombed. Their parents and community should heed the warnings instead of supporting terrorists. 99.3% of Palestinians are managing not to get blown up while hanging out with Hamas commanders.

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NoIWontPickAName@kbin.earth

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7 points

5 months ago

My point is, if you have decided to pull the trigger, knowing you’re gonna kill a kid, I hope you die a painful death and no longer care what you think.

It’s just tragic coincidence after tragic coincidence after tragic coincidence.

At what point do you stop believing these are accidents?

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-4 points

5 months ago

Sometimes they aren’t. I have hope Israel, as a democracy, will sort its shit out at the ballot box. Same as I hope for my own country, and throughout the western world. We all have rightwing nutjobs we need to be excising from our politics.

I have zero hope that will happen for any Palestinian or really virtually anyone in the middle east outside of Israel. I have more hope for Iraq as a beacon of democratic ideals than I do for Gaza. Gaza is a lost cause and nobody is going to miss Hamas or remember a few score thousands of collateral deaths, attributable entirely to Hamas’s leadership.

E: Not just me https://www.idea.int/gsod-2021/africa-middle-east

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NoIWontPickAName@kbin.earth

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2 points

5 months ago

I will remember, and I will make sure to tell others if they begin to forget.

It’s not a whole beach, but you have to do it one starfish at a time

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-3 points

5 months ago

C’mon don’t kid. This is a footnote in history and will be remembered as little more than a local police matter. A war with Iran on the other hand, is going to kill 35,000 people by the hour, by the minute perhaps. Imagine how sad that’s going to be for you!

That’s the starfish I’m thinking about. Not you though. You have the one right in front of you that you’re talking about saving on the internet, not actually saving, and can’t see there is actually a starfish steamroller coming down the beach and the starfish you are tying to save are the ones that invited the steamroller to come.

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Rekorse@lemmy.dbzer0.com

2 points

5 months ago

So, in your opinion, this is all okay because the alternative is war with Iran?

Why are you so sure that will happen if Palestine and Hamas survive? Are you concerned that it might be bias giving you so much confidence?

I have to say that it appears like you are just imagining a worse outcome (whether likely or not) and using it to justify a slightly less bad outcome.

Seems like shaky ground, no?

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0 points

5 months ago

I suppose if you think of it as some far off thing that might happen, yeah pretty shaky. Being a long term state sponsor of anti Jewish terrorism shows their commitment to wiping out Israel. It’s basically also all the talk about. They are true believers: they think they are ordained by God to control all Israeli land, that Jews should be removed from such lands by force, that when they find terrorism aimed at killing innocent Israeli people, that they are doing God’s work. In short, the war is already happening. It’s about keeping it contained.

I’m not even as concerned with the direct, hot war. Israel will wipe Iranian forced off the map within weeks, and they will certainly turn Tehran into a sheet of glass before they let Iranian troops march into Jerusalem.

I’m thinking about the 110,000,000 people that live in Iran and Israel, as well as the hundreds of millions of other people who live in surrounded states that are likely to collapse under the weight of the unprecedented refugee crisis which would result from another failed middle east state as large as Iran. And after Israel gets done defending itself, Iran will be a failed state.

Try to imagine one state after another throughout the Mediterranean Coast, throughout North Africa, down the eastern coast of Africa, South and central Asia. A lot of these countries are barely hanging on, how’s it going to be when they’re wave after wave of millions of refugees who all need food and water. 35,000 people could be dying every 8 minutes.

Yeah, maybe this a little bit speculative in the same way anything that hasn’t happened yet is a little bit speculative.

I think we take a little bit of precaution to try and avoid this, and that means we bolster Israel’s defensive posture as to Iran. And I don’t see how anyone could really get upset about that. Israel does not need anyone to bolster their defensive posture as far as Gaza or the West Bank is concerned. Do they make their own weapons in Israel. They do not need one us-made weapon to level all of Gaza and all of the West Bank. And they could do it within a day. The fact that not only have they not done so, they have managed to only kill 0.7% of the people in these areas over the course of 8 months. That’s why they have the right to claim they are the most moral Army in the world; any other country’s military would have leveled the place after about the third suicide bombing.

Like I get it, 35,000 people, half of them kids, it is awful. No, it is not okay. Israel can and must do more to limit civilian casualties. But it’s morally, practically, legally, emphatically less not okay than purposely weakening Israel’s posture as to Iran, to invite that catastrophe, because we got really sad about wildly exaggerated reports about how Israel is handling a local border dispute with a group of outlaws and their loyal supporters. Again, I know not all Palestinians are loyal Hamas supporters. It’s probably a hell of lot more than 0.7%, though.

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