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17 points

We aren’t the problem, but we can be the solution.

Show you want sustainable products by only buying sustainable products. Framework is a small company but did enough damage in the enthusiast company that now Lenovo and Dell are spinning up repairable/sustainable laptop product lines for the future.

Show that you want to move on from the carbon fuels era by only buying solar and electric products.

Be an enthusiast about such products. Be positive about the impact in your daily life.

Word of mouth goes a long way, especially when you are likely the first person in everyone’s network driving an electric car and their only other perception was shaped by what they read on Drudge or Fox News.

Nobody wants to hear about reducing their “carbon footprint,” that’s an immediate turnoff. But saying, “oh yeah I was getting a little big around the waist, decided to try eating healthier” for why you are eating clean, or “Gas prices are such a motherfucker and parts were always breaking on my old car, I couldn’t afford it anymore, this electric car is simple and the only thing I ever have to replace are tires and wiper blades.” That shit goes a long way.

Even little things like, “I got tired of plastic grocery bags breaking all the time, the fucking kid at the store always stuffs too much in the bag and the bags tear open in the car, plus the reusable bags are really nice and sturdy and I use them around the house for XXXX” can get people to buy reusable grocery bags.

Something about flies, honey, and vinegar.

Obviously, nothing will really change without legislation. But legislation won’t change until normal people start seeing the green solution as the best solution.

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9 points

Excellent points, and good examples! Reminds me of the old zero waste adage: “We don’t need a handful of people doing zero waste perfectly. We need millions of people doing it imperfectly.” Every step in the right direction helps.

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4 points

No, we cannot be the solution. Individual consumer behavior cannot change systemic issues. The only viable solution to Climate Change is at the ballot box. Out of control billionaires and vested fossil fuel interests cannot be swayed by asking people to pretty please go into massive debt to buy a Tesla instead of a sub 10k beater they can afford.

Nothing of what you’re suggesting is sufficient or even realistic for most people. You want someone earning 30k a year to buy solar panels!? Are you mad?

We don’t need a handful of people doing zero waste perfectly, we need millions to EAT THE RICH.

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3 points

Those people earning 30k a year still buy gas guzzlers and vote for the billionaires to stay in charge while getting their information from other billionaires.

They need a mindset change. That happens at the local level, through word of mouth and seeing their peers making lifestyle change.

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1 point

Oh I’m familiar with the demographic, I just don’t see them changing because their “weirdo libtard” neighbor bought a used Prius or something. At this point I feel like you’re either onboard with the whole “climate change is real and bad and something should be done” agenda or else living in clown world mainlining alternative “facts.” And how do you even discuss these issues with someone who disputes the nature of reality itself? If you’ve got that one figured out please share because it’ll be useful in talking to my parents.

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2 points

You noted that the ballot box is the best way to do this, but that we also have to eat the rich. The big problem is that the ballot box is controlled by the rich. Both sides of the I’ll are paid off by corporate interests… And they don’t care about climate change…

The ONLY solution is to EAT THE RICH… The ballot box will actually be taken care of when corporations can’t pay off politicians anymore.

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2 points

I earn less than 30K, and spent a few hundred here, a few hundred there, over the years, in renewable energy co-ops in my region. In total, my share of those installations now produces more than I consume. Our next project: charging stations for EVs, although I don’t even have a car.

I don’t have to have my own panels or windmills or chargers.

Yes, ballot box. Of course ballot box! And at least new combustion engine cars, for example, will be a thing of the past in a few years, here in Europe, thanks to ballot box. But I don’t want people to buy a Tesla. I want people to buy no car at all. And I want countries to tax the crap out of fuel for both surface and air transport. But how realistic is this ballot box solution?

We need both. Individual behaviour and ballot box.

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4 points

This might work at the higher end with tech brands and expensive products. People near the poverty line or people with no savings (most people) simply can’t afford to do any of this. Sustainable, green, locally sourced = expensive.

It’s a good thing to do if you can. But this won’t change the world or the corporations generating most pollution. Everyone needs heat and food. Everyone needs power. And most of us, wealthy and poor, don’t get to choose who creates our electricity or supplies us with water.

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1 point

Sustainable, green, locally sourced = expensive.

There are economic policies that can greatly mitigate this. Carbon taxes that subsidize sustainable projects, for one example.

And most of us, wealthy and poor, don’t get to choose who creates our electricity

For what it’s worth, this often isn’t true. Here in NYC, for instance, electricity generation and transportation are somewhat independent markets. Any NYC resident can choose to change who actually supplies their electricity, and there are companies that guarantee renewable sources. It does, of course, cost more.

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2 points

There are economic policies that can greatly mitigate this. Carbon taxes that subsidize sustainable projects, for one example.

But those are not things individuals can choose directly. Those are regulations and laws that require organization.

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1 point

There are economic policies that can greatly mitigate this. Carbon taxes that subsidize sustainable projects, for one example.

No, there aren’t. Cheap stuff is cheap because it’s mass produced using techniques and materials that combine cost savings and externalized environmental effects with the deprivation of global trade.

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3 points

That’s nice and all, but we can’t be the solution by spending decisions and word of mouth of positive experiences with sustainable consumption. You semi-acknowledge that, but that’s dangerous. The time for positive gradual change was 20 years ago, it’s time to get nonviolently angry and demand change.

We need everyone to realize that it’s far from enough to stop using plastic straws or eating less meat. We need fundamental societal and economic change that requires far more than simply adjusting consumption patterns.

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4 points
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Right, but this “carbon footprint was invented by BP” argument is most often used by people who outright refuse to do their part. Yes, we do need to get angry and demand change. While at the same time reducing our own impact as much as possible.

Main reason: if our demands will someday be heard, there will no longer be any meat or plastic straws available anyway. Why not get used to living without, now?

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2 points

It isn’t about getting used to anything or doing your part. Meat and plastic straws are the tip of the iceberg. By focusing on these factors we are constantly failing to address the issue substantially. They are convenient ways to make the problem seem like something that can by solved by a series of small adjustments. As everyone should know by now, that is wrong.

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1 point
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Sure, if you can live that way while still turning the tide, great. It’s still going to take a shift in public opinion.

I am not going to do anything but reinforce popular resentment towards everything green if I walk around as the angry Asian guy. They already hate me for existing here.

But if I can convince my office of people that their next car is electric while touting the benefits of my car, that stuff spreads organically.

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2 points

The issue is that going electric already is a convenient lie we tell ourselves. We can’t just replace all cars with electric ones and rhinkbthat we’ve solved it. We need to realize that the level of individual mobility by personal vehicle we have today is not sustainable.

Going electrical helps your individual emissions, sure, but we should be mindful that these are the pseudo solutions sold by people who would rather change nothing.

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1 point

I honestly didn’t have the energy today to unpack that, you did a great job summing my thoughts up.

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