Unless you re part of a coop (based) or run your business as a one man show, you’re reliant on the labour and appropriation of surplus value of others to amas such wealth (aka committing capitalism).
So a surgeon doesnt earn their wealth off their own labor & value? Hard disagree, even accounting for their assistants that couldnt do what they do. The surgeon provides some amount of value, their staff makes them more efficient, so theres an equilibrium where theyre being fairly compensated. The hospital owners and investors are the leeches.
This is a fundamental sticking point between people who believe in any form of capitalism and communism. If someone develops a method of creating a surplus of labor, under communism, they have no right to that surplus beyond the surplus they would get as a worker.
Keyword surplus. If a surgeon would bring in $1000 a day alone and an assistant brings this to $1200, if the assistant gets $200 then theres no skimming, a win-win. Like i said, in reality there ARE people skimming the surplus, but there are laborers that produce significant value on their own.
So a surgeon doesnt earn their wealth off their own labor & value?
Sure they do. The question that I answered was in regards to commerce/investing. (Rereading the question, it included also saving where highly skilled workers operating where there’s a low supply comes to play - assuming that’s why you mentioned surgeons)
The surgeon provides some amount of value, their staff makes them more efficient, so theres an equilibrium where theyre being fairly compensated. The hospital owners and investors are the leeches.
If the surgeon employs the their staff they’re engaging in capitalism, but I’m assuming you meant that they are also an employee of the hospital in your example.
Where do people that dont want to (or cant) be an owner get their income from?
And also most millionaires do it via things like a 401k and just boring saving over decades.
Where do people that dont want to (or cant) be an owner get their income from?
From selling their labour aka wageslavery. Usually.
And also most millionaires do it via things like a 401k and just boring saving over decades.
401k and savings usually have investments, where appropriation of labour surplus happens.
Outside of stealing from other people, how would people make a living that dont own a company?
I mean, given enough time, just a mere salary man can become a millionaire (and with more time, a multi-millionaire) only by keeping their spending low and stashing the rest of their net salary into index funds. Sure, that’s capitalism which isn’t too popular in Lemmy, but it’s just an example of how a millionaire can really just be a normal, somewhat frugal, person. They aren’t showing their wealth though because that’s the reason they are able to save such a nest-egg so you can’t really tell if your neighbor is secretly wealthy or not.
Billionaires (and “multihundredmillionaires”) are a completely different group of people though, and no normal person is able to amass such wealth without a shit-ton of luck and most probably some abuse as well.
I mean, given enough time, just a mere salary man can become a millionaire (and with more time, a multi-millionaire) only by keeping their spending low
Technically true, if they are a highly skilled worker that’s in low supply
stashing the rest of their net salary into index funds
Index funds usually invest in other firms, where profits (read: appropriated surplus value of workers) is distributed among stakeholders.
Billionaires (and “multihundredmillionaires”) are a completely different group of people though, and no normal person is able to amass such wealth without
a shit-ton of luck and most probably some abuse as wellan economy that is organized in such a way, where no matter you work you’re at the mercy of the firms owners and their managment, where your surplus value gets appropriated and where refusing to participate in such system lands you on the street because you can’t pay rent.
ftfy. please consider reading theory
Technically true, if they are a highly skilled worker that’s in low supply
You don’t have to earn wild sums of money, you just have to be able to live below your means and save the rest. Sure, the absolute poorest people don’t have that luxury, and also in very expensive locations it’s the same even for some relatively high salary people too. For the rest of us, assuming that our capitalistic system doesn’t collapse, 500e (or dollars) per month for ~30 years gets you there. If you’re able to start while you’re 20 by some miracle, you would be a millionaire by 50. Or, 300e a month for roughly 37 years gets you above the mark. Now, one million euros or dollars will not buy you the same stuff then as it would today so you still wouldn’t be “filthy rich” but that wasn’t the point here. Also, if you were to just stop saving after passing the magical two commas, the money would theoretically double in 9 years making you a multi-millionaire. This is assuming 9% yearly interest for your investments over the whole time which is slightly below S&P500 all-time average (not accounting inflation).
Compounding interest is the keyword and that’s why rich people keep on getting richer and poor people poorer - it works both ways, in savings and in loans. Not everyone has to achieve the million coin mark either - just be aware of how the system functions and make your decisions accordingly. If you decide to live in a nicer location or enjoy traveling or nice vehicles or eat nice food or do whatever instead of accumulating wealth, it’s completely fine. That’s actually required for our eternal growth in the market after all. On the other hand, wealth accumulation gives you options in the future if you get fed up with your boss for example.
ftfy. please consider reading theory
I think you might’ve misunderstood my point, and that’s probably my bad for leaving it a bit ambiguous. At least in my mind, the people that get to hundreds of millions or into billions, are usually some startup founders (where success is mostly luck) or people achieving big corporation CxO level which usually is not happening by just making friends on the way climbing up the corporate ladder. That also needs a little bit of luck, because as you mentioned, you could be shafted at any point in your career hard. Also you need to be a workaholic and at least slightly narcissistic. Getting born into the right family wouldn’t hurt either. So that’s not something everyone could do in my opinion and that’s why I wouldn’t mix “normal” workforce into this at all.
And well, I don’t know what you mean by “refusing to participate in such system”. Usually people have a choice of working for a big corporation or choosing to work for smaller companies that tend to be more employee-friendly, at least in my experience. Maybe there are differences in some expertise areas that I’m not aware of but otherwise if you wish to work for some humane employers, seek smaller companies and skip the Elon Musk -like sweatshops that try to squeeze you to work 60 hours a week minimum all the time. Relocation is not an entirely bad thing either if that helps you find a healthier workplace. Now, if you refuse to work at all, well, that wouldn’t work even in socialism or in small African villages where everyone expects others to contribute to the village functioning. You just have to find the right “village” that you want to help keep on running and maybe grow it while at it if everyone so desires.
