You’ve put it out there for free, though, and the data literally ends up on my machine because you made it do that, so what’s the problem with me saving the data on my machine for later, and potentially sharing it elsewhere for free again?
then publishing it as your own is theft
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This scenario (misattribution of content) has nothing to do with the previous discussion. The other commenter is making an analogy to CDs, owning a CD and lending it to others doesn’t mean you’re claiming its content is your own creation.
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Theft implies deprivation of ownership. Calling this theft is like calling piracy theft. It may be illegal by this or that metric, but it’s not normal theft.
Well the whole premise of their argument is flawed because they’re basing it on the fact of redistribution. If I’m not redistributing it, then the whole argument of that falls away entirely. Under fair use, I believe you’re also allowed to make copies of things for research purposes, so I’d argue that’s what an archive is.
You’ve put it out there for free
Irrelevant. It’s still my content that I have sole rights to. If I want to share it to individuals I can do that if I please. You don’t have any rights to do anything else with it.
and the data literally ends up on my machine because you made it do that
Incorrect. Your browser made it do that. How that data is accessed and displayed is not controlled by me. Case and point you can have extensions on your browser that changes how my websites are rendered.
That doesn’t give you a right to replicate my content elsewhere.
and potentially sharing it elsewhere for free again?
Because it’s not yours? And publishing it again elsewhere is effectively you claiming it is yours. Especially if published without attribution.
You guys can’t have this both ways. If an artist makes a painting… and posts a picture of it. They have no rights to the painting anymore? They deserve no ownership/pay for what they’ve done? If a news story is published… They have no rights to sell that story to another publisher just because you can copy and paste the text? This is absurd logic. My website has/had a cost. I bore it. I have sole rights to that content.
This scenario (misattribution of content) has nothing to do with the previous discussion. The other commenter is making an analogy to CDs, owning a CD and lending it to others doesn’t mean you’re claiming its content is your own creation.
No, this has to do with rights of the content. Owning the CD grants you a license to the content on that CD. That’s about as good as ownership gets there. They own the CD/license. As long as that CD exists/works. You don’t gain that same right by simply visiting a website.
Theft implies deprivation of ownership. Calling this theft is like calling piracy theft. It may be illegal by this or that metric, but it’s not normal theft.
No it doesn’t. Taking content and using in an unauthorized way while gaining money or some other consideration is also theft. Wayback Machine and other archives are paid for somehow. If some content being on a site swayed someone to make a donation to that archive site, then that value should have gone to the original creator. That is theft. This is the core of most of the current lawsuits. Although they often equate this to “potential and future earnings” which is bullshit because oftentimes that content would never be have been viewed at whatever cost they ascribed.
You don’t have any rights to do anything else with it.
That’s patently false. At a minimum, I can quote parts of your content, just as you can quote smaller portions of any published text anywhere, you don’t have to ask the publisher or author for permission. It’s also ridiculous and impossible to control, the content is on my private machine already, how can any law be relevant or exerted upon what I do there? I doubt you’re writing this comment on the basis of your knowledge of copyright law.
Incorrect. Your browser made it do that. How that data is accessed and displayed is not controlled by me.
You’re arguing semantics that really don’t make any difference. The display is irrelevant, because the data by itself is stored on my computer before it is displayed. That data is what you’ve put up online to be accessed.
Owning the CD grants you a license to the content on that CD. That’s about as good as ownership gets there. They own the CD/license. As long as that CD exists/works. You don’t gain that same right by simply visiting a website.
I fail to see the difference between getting a CD with some data (buying it or being given for free, as e.g. a gift) and being sent some data online for free. More importantly - says who? Does copyright law say this about websites?
If an artist makes a painting… and posts a picture of it. They have no rights to the painting anymore? They deserve no ownership/pay for what they’ve done?
This simply doesn’t follow from what I’ve written. They certainly retain the rights to the painting. Besides, “deserving pay” depends on completely different factors than the ones we’re discussing, usually artists sell the actual object, the painting. A digital reproduction is, as far as most people care (I think), merely an informative reproduction, and not the real thing. Stuff that’s posted online for free is… free. It wasn’t intended to be made money with directly.
Your final paragraph is really confusing me, you seem to be saying that Wayback Machine is also committing theft, which I’m pretty sure is not true (I’ve followed the lawsuits against IA for a while and don’t remember anyone invoking that term). And at this point I don’t know what “theft” is even supposed to mean to you or to anyone else, and what was the point of the discussion anyway. Maybe I should reread the whole discussion carefully all over again, but I’m on my phone and it’s all giving me a headache.
the content is on my private machine already, how can any law be relevant or exerted upon what I do there?
So child porn is okay then? You would already have it on your system and got it for free on your private machine!
I doubt you’re writing this comment on the basis of your knowledge of copyright law.
I doubt you are either. Yet we’re both here.
you seem to be saying that Wayback Machine is also committing theft
It does… on paper… A lot. https://time.com/6266147/internet-archive-copyright-infringement-books-lawsuit/ To the point it’s losing lawsuits over exactly that.
