Gender abolitionism usually focuses on roles and rigidity surrounding it, not the idea that we will eventually have no actual genders. Gender is biologically real but all the social constructs surrounding it are not. If this is not what you have read, Iām interested in links.
But there is no world in which I am not a woman - but very much a world where I am happy to reject the social constructs built up around womanhood.
I still posit that anyone that can actually change their gender (not realize it and change presentation and potentially roles) was gender fluid in the first place.
This reasoning errs much too close to bio-essentialism for me, itās the same line of thinking that leads people to āyou have to have dysphoria or youāre not transā.
I believe all trans people. I do believe that all trans people have gender dysphoria (otherwise there wouldnāt be a reason to transition) though many do not recognize it and believe they are trans (which they are) but do not experience dysphoria (which they do). Think of this in a pure motivation sense. One does not make major life changes without something informing that decision, which is what dysphoria is.
I am seriously interested in gender abolitionist takes that arenāt just abolishing the strict roles/styles/behaviors affiliated with gender. I donāt think you can provide this, because gender abolitionists do believe people have an intrinsic gender (or rather, one may have an intrinsic gender, wrt agender individuals) they just donāt believe that oneās gender should be defined by someone else and that a lot of the roles and behaviors attributed to gender are regressive and need abolished. To which I agree. I am a woman but I am not gender conforming (rarely wear dresses or skirts, present relatively butch, and reject all gender roles).
Your rigid line of thinking here could easily convince someone that conversion therapy is a reasonable treatment for gender dysphoria, which it most certainly is not. Because why would it not be, if it could work? My answer to that is that my intrinsic gender is too much a part of me to rip out: you canāt change my gender. I would not be me if you tore my gender out of me.
Frankly, Iām kind of growing tired of discussing trans issues with cis people, especially when they keep telling me Iām biased (āI know why youāre so defensive about thisā). I have a gender, if you donāt then that is good for you, but you canāt take my gender from me. Please genuinely consider that this is based on my life experiences, whereas your view is informed second hand on othersā lived experiences, if you wish to continue this discussion with me.
You canāt ābelieve all trans peopleā while also not believing the trans people who say their experience is not gender fluidity but an actual mid-life change in gender.
Ultimately you can only be one or the other.
As for those people without dysphoria, several of them will openly say they think they can choose one or the other, but prefer one, but donāt think this is the same as gender fluidity. Are they wrong?
āI believe all trans peopleā while having a biological gender essentialist belief is not possible.
I am seriously interested in gender abolitionist takes that arenāt just abolishing the strict roles/styles/behaviors affiliated with gender. I donāt think you can provide this
This is the basis for literally all cyberpunk and transhumanist takes on gender as the elimination of biological limitations turns the entire of sexuality into something of an avatar swap. If youāve spent any time in VR, where some insight into behaviours of people and culture has played out, you start to get a sense for where this could go. What gender is that person with the smoke avatar? No gender. Which, for the record here, is a gender that a lot of people say they already are, which does not at all fit into the gender biological essentialism. You NEED to exclude people who say they have no gender at all (not non-binary, those with explicitly no gender) in order to fit this concept together.
Frankly, Iām kind of growing tired of discussing trans issues with cis people
I am not cis. Not sure why youāve decided this, fucking disgusting response and the reason I waited days to bother responding to this tbh. The way this part of your response makes me feel is unlikely to ever go away when I see you elsewhere on this site, wtf were you thinking.
I believe all trans people.
I want to say, once again, that this is a platitude. It does not fit into the view that youāre taking. You genuinely canāt believe all trans people while having this view.