lemm.ee

3 points

2 days ago

I think it’s stupid.

Literally why?? It’s one of the most effective things we can do for the vast majority of our population. And every expert thinks it’s a good idea. Some random bozo thinking it’s “stupid” is fucking stupid, but apparently you’re in good company with Kennedy here lol

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arglebargle@lemm.ee

0 points

2 days ago

Did you read the second part of my comment? Just how much water do kids drink these days? How much more effective is using fluoride AND developing good brushing habits?

The latest studies show a rise in flourosis, and a decline in effectiveness since the widespread use of fluoride toothpaste.

It seems crazy to me to add a chemical to water that had no dose control and concentrates upon boiling if there are better options.

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2 points

2 days ago

Just how much water do kids drink these days?

WTF kind of question/argument is this?

“Kids these days, amirite? They don’t drink any water but thank god they can be trusted to have good brushing habits!”

The latest studies show a rise in flourosis

Along with a decline in having teeth rot and fall out, damn what a tough choice.

a decline in effectiveness since the widespread use of fluoride toothpaste

That isn’t a decline in effectiveness you bozo.

It seems crazy to me to add a chemical to water that had no dose control

You realize we add literal chlorine to water, right? Not some scary chemical with “chloride blah blah blah” in the name, actual chlorine. It only seems crazy to you because you’re making an uninformed opinion based on your gut feeling instead of trusting experts and people who actually studied and work with water treatment plants.

You literally are disagreeing with decades of evidence that it helps populations and especially children, disagreeing with experts in the field, and agreeing with fucking RFK, Jr. Maybe take a second to pause and evaluate whether your initial, uneducated emotional response should have any fucking weight on this decision.

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arglebargle@lemm.ee

0 points

2 days ago

Bozo? So are we having a discussion or what? Do you just want to argue about how you feel and have a slapfight or are you willing to actually discuss this? Uneducated indeed.

Yes, Kids these days. How much water do kids drink? How much TAP water do kids drink?

The latest studies show a rise in flourosis

Along with a decline in having teeth rot and fall out, damn what a tough choice.

Except NO. That is what I am telling you. The studies that have been done have discovered that the effectiveness we saw in the 1950’s is not the same as today. With the rise of Fluoride in toothpaste the differences are negligible.

Do you know the difference between Chlorine and Flouride? Chlorine is an evaporating compound. Don’t want chlorine in your water, let it sit for a day. Boil it.

Fluoride does not evaporate. It concentrates.

You literally are disagreeing with decades of evidence

Nope. I am willing to look at and understand current studies and evidence. Are you?

I hate that this stance appears to agree with RFK Jr. He is an idiot. I said it was a municipality issue, not a federal issue. I said I would support flouride in toothpaste and a program to assist with that. I also can agree that a municipality may find it necessary to fluoridate their water if dental care and oral hygiene is unavailable due to various factors like poverty, remoteness, cost effectiveness etc. But in the end it would ALWAYS be better to prescribe the treatment in measured amounts, instead of adding it to the water. That is why I think it is stupid and we need to move beyond it.

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1 point

2 days ago

Yes, Kids these days.

Lol what a great discussion and not just arguing about “how you feel”

How much TAP water do kids drink?

What the actual fuck is your point here? All of my friends’ kids drink mostly from the tap, or make food with water from the tap. Do you think children are only drinking cans of soda and Lunchables??

With the rise of Fluoride in toothpaste the differences are negligible

Literally not true, studies still show better outcomes for cities that add fluoride. A Canadian province that doesn’t add fluoride has more cavities and issues than a neighboring province that does.

The mild fluorosis that is “risked” by adding fluoride is such a mild condition compared to teeth loss, weaker adult teeth, and cavities while growing up.

I am willing to look at and understand current studies and evidence

Being willing to understand doesn’t magically convey the ability to understand. You sound like nurses that become anti-vax and think they know more about medicine since they had to memorize unrelated facts and know how to inject a needle.

I said it was a municipality issue, not a federal issue

It already is, fluoridization is not federally mandated. RFK is talking about federally banning it.

a municipality may find it necessary to fluoridate their water if dental care and oral hygiene is unavailable due to various factors like poverty, remoteness, cost effectiveness etc. But in the end it would ALWAYS be better to prescribe the treatment in measured amounts, instead of adding it to the water.

So you agree it’s better to add it to the water until literally every person in the US has health/dental care and free fluoride treatments? I hope you’re arguing for those, too, instead of just whining about how some utopian alternative that we are nowhere near to having would be better.

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arglebargle@lemm.ee

0 points

2 days ago

So explain to me how Denmark has the best DMFT index score (decayed, missing, or filled teeth), yet they do not add fluoride to their water.

Or Kuopio Finland, that was the only city in Finland that fluoridated then stopped.

This study indicates that, among children and adolescents whose permanent teeth erupted in the mid-1970s or thereafter, even a longitudinal approach did not reveal a lower caries occurrence in the fluoridated than in the low-fluoride reference community. The main reason for the modest effect of water fluoridation in Finnish circumstances is probably the widespread use of other measures for caries prevention. The children have been exposed to such intense efforts to increase tooth resistance that the effect of water fluoridation does not show up any more.

Again, better health care, better outcomes. Putting a poison that becomes a random dose depending on age, consumption, and concentration into water is stupid. You wont change my mind. It may be a necessary evil to get to better care, but we should be able to stop doing that.

And yes, I don’t know any kids who actually are willing to drink tap water anymore. Its all bottled, brita, or filtered these days.

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1 point

2 days ago

Your response to me saying that adding fluoride is best until the US has complete and free dental healthcare was to mention two European countries with with better healthcare than the US. So I’ll repeat myself since you can’t read:

So you agree it’s better to add it to the water until literally every person in the US has health/dental care and free fluoride treatments?

If you live in the US then it should be obvious what will provide the best outcomes, since those other measures aren’t in fucking place here.

Putting a poison

It’s not a poison, this type of bullshit fear-mongering just highlights how hollow your arguments are. You’re arguing that the delivery method of fluoride is wrong, and then you call it a poison. Stop taking cues from anti-vaxxers.

It may be a necessary evil

It’s not an evil, just because there’s a hypothetical better way doesn’t mean this way is bad. It provably doesn’t have worse outcomes! How the fuck can it be evil? All your links just show it has “negligible effects” if fluoride is provided another way, none of them show negative effects.

And yes, I don’t know any kids who actually are willing to drink tap water anymore

Than you either don’t live in America or you live in a much more well-off area then me. Over half of Americans drink tap water, and more than that cook with the water.

brita, or filtered these days

Brita and other filters don’t remove fluoride from water, so drinking filtered tap water doesn’t affect adding fluoride to the water.

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