Because you now did it to yourself.
Well the entire multiplatform astroturfing campaign from people who call themselves leftists worked! Democrats stayed home instead of voting.
Now Palestine will be completely flattened with 0 resistance at all, and redoubled support and bombs for Israel! Way to go! You really showed your support for Palestine by helping this happen!
They will probably come back saying “it wasn’t our fault, we just pointed out the truth” while they shouted that a vote for Harris was a vote for genocide [so don’t vote for harris] from every platform that they used.
Honest question: Why blame the voters? Why not blame Harris for refusing to do the obviously correct, ethical even moral thing regarding Gaza?
The democrats are so impossibly spineless that they wait for polls and focus groups for their talking points instead of standing up for their principles (if they really exist).
Dems spent the entire campaign trying to compromise with and convince right wingers acting in bad faith instead of just working towards progressive policies. They once and again let the GOP set the tone for every conversation.
The Dem’s attitude towards the genocide in Gaza is just a piece of evidence that shows their way of thinking: the dog race and politicking is more important that doing the right thing.
So stop blaming the voters and take a deep look into your own values and principles because the nation being obliterated right now in the middle east and the people who stand for them even at great cost to themselves are definitely not to blame.
Because like it or not stopping aid for Israel would have pushed all Israel supporters to Trump. Sadly apparently most Palestine supporters are stupid enough to not see that is 1000x worse for them
Palestine supporters are stupid enough to not see that is 1000x worse for them
I don’t think this is a constructive way of looking at the situation. After all, being quiet about Netanyahu’s abuses wasn’t a winning strategy either. Besides, being scared of Israeli lobbying automatically makes you a bad leader.
Regular people don’t live reading obscure threads on Lemmy so I’m 100% sure that the effects of the comments posted by tankies here are negligible.
My point is that you can’t lose against the worst human being twice and keep blaming the electorate. If they want to lead, the dems have to stand for something instead of complaining about turnout or in general blaming anyone else but themselves. It was THEIR job to get out the vote.
Trump is a monumental POS but the dems prefer to cater to the people who voted for him instead of the people who want legitimate pro-working-class policies.
Why blame the voters?
Cause they voted. Or didn’t. Ultimately the choice is with them and a large majority of people decided that they’ll vote for rapist, racist, authoritarian fuckwit or sit the fuck home because it doesn’t matter who is running the government.
You can talk strategies and blame Democratic party till cows come home but at the end of the day, the people have to choose the least bad option.
And if they weren’t willing to choose the least bad option, I think that says more about the least bad option than it does about the worst option.
The simple answer is you blame people for the things they do. Kind of fucking basic.
Yeah harris should have ran a better campaign with less genocide and more pro labor policies.
Honest question: Why blame the voters? Why not blame Harris for refusing to do the obviously correct, ethical even moral thing regarding Gaza?
Because it’s only one issue out of many that need to be addressed (I didn’t say fixed because IMHO the IDF are doing pretty good work eradicating Hamas, all things considered).
You guys need to take care of your housing, healthcare, gerrymandering, public transport, student loans, separation of religion and government and a truckload of other things that I don’t think Trump has any interest in improving. And you can bet your bottom dollar that Trump won’t be any “better” in regards to the situation in Gaza and the rest of the middle east.
So the voters that didn’t vote Harris purely because of the Gaza issue are to blame for their short sightedness.
Okay so blame the arabs in Wisconsin. Got it. Now do Pennsylvania. Why did they go trump. Tell me more mr oracle.
This post is a really good example of how the disinformation campaign actually worked on people and created this believe. Fascinating. And terrifying.
What belief, may I ask?
Look, you can check my older comments to understand where I’m coming from. I’m open to listening and perhaps we both can learn something from all of this.
What exactly is wrong with what they said? At the end of the day, democrats support the genocide too. You can’t say “republicans will do it harder hurr durr” and expect people to vote for the one that still is for genocide, but is a little bit shy about it. The end result is the same - the Palestinian state will never exist and the people will be killed. There is no difference if it happens over a year or over three. So that issue is brushed aside, or is the cause of not voting at all.
Then you have the absolutely idiotic move to the right. Saying “the border wall is a good idea” as a democrat? Come the F on.
Or maybe, like they normally do, the Democrats failed to rally their base to vote, or didn’t give them enough incentive to get out and vote.
Biden had 4 years to make meaningful progress for the American people, and whether or not he did is irrelevant because Americans don’t feel better off than 4 years ago. Democrats spent the last year screaming about the economy doing amazing, while ignoring all of the polls showing Americans don’t feel that way.
Democrats spent the last year sending weapons shipment after weapons shipment to Israel to bomb Palestinian children, despite polls showing the majority of Americans wanted contingencies on the shipments. And the Democrats instead lectured their constituents about how what they’re seeing and hearing isn’t actually what it is, and it’ll be worse with the other guy!
Democrats spent the last 4 years doing nothing but try to return to the same status quo that isn’t working for the average American anymore. Biden’s hubris took the decision out of the people’s hands, and we were given a candidate we didn’t choose and told to shut up and like it because “fAsCiSm.”
Well, congratulations Democrat Party, we fell to fascism because that’s obviously a better alternative than actually putting forward progressive policies. And whether you like to hear it or not, the Republican voter supporting this fascist movement is doing so because they want change in this country too.
Only difference being, the Republicans are actually “progressing” their party along like their constituents want. Maybe the Democrats should try listening to their constituents for once and, idk, see if that maybe works in their favor for once?
In general I agree, because their campaign definitely could’ve been better and it should’ve been better. But on the other hand this election wasn’t genocide or no genocide, without a significant shift in either political party that would happen regardless. If you really wanted to twist it into “genocide or no genocide” then that vote was “completely support genocide” or “begrudgingly support genocide”.
But really this election was between “full steam straight into fascism” and “chance to not go into fascism”. It’s obvious that if you don’t vote for the latter you either want fascism or don’t care that you’re getting fascism. That is on the voters. They could’ve voted to pass the fascism buck to the next election, but they didn’t. Now America is getting fascism.
Why not blame Harris for refusing to do the obviously correct, ethical even moral thing regarding Gaza?
Because I never saw Trump getting the exact same criticism. Not even when he told Netanyahu, “finish the job.”
Somehow Harris was always worse on Gaza to certain people.
The difference between them is you are never getting the votes that don’t give a shit about Palestine back from Trump. His voters don’t care. Democratic voters do. When both candidates have the exact same position (and “genocide harder or lighter” isn’t a difference in position, it’s still genocide) then the issue only causes people to not vote, or look at other policies. And then you add in alienating more democrats by going further right and copying their policies. The people who like them will still vote for the republican. The people liking democratic policies will cringe and step aside.
You are right. We can’t keep blaming other citizens like ourselves.
There is one group of people that led us to this point: Democrats themselves. And by Democrats, I mean those in power, delegates, podcast hosts, and the ones supposedly “leading” the party. Not the electorate.
They are the ones that wished Biden would be able to make it to a second term, when the first presidential debate clearly showed otherwise. They are the ones that pushed un-Democratic policies in hopes of winning over a base they’ve never captured: Republicans. They are the ones that dropped the ball on one of the greatest feats of Kamala’s campaign that could have sent her over the finish line: Tim Walz and a progressive agenda.
Yes, thank you for putting it better than me.
Especially Re: podcast hosts, I follow a couple of “progressive” podcasts and they showed their true colors very clearly when one day they were strongly shilling for Biden and admonishing any differing opinion. Then magically they changed tunes when the situation was inescapable. They came off as strongly disingenuous and spineless.
We can’t keep blaming other citizens like ourselves.
Fucking what? Donald Trump won the popular vote. We blame those people.
DNC relies on Zionist/Israel first funding, even as most of it went to Trump. Every other oligarch/lobby group allies with Zionism because failure to do so would hurt their interests, if it upset the Zionists who overspend relative to usual Israel aid amounts given each year. Zionism is integral to oil geopolitics by dividing the middle east, and providing war spending opportunities. Do you think tech, farmers or manufacturing can oppose that trifecta of power?
This had nothing to do with Gaza. This election shows Gaza doesn’t matter one iota. Ukraine didn’t matter one bit. Not even your own human rights mattered. This was inflation, housing, and (further on the right) xenophobia. Clinton was right, “it’s the economy stupid” (even though Dems are better for the economy).
Nah Trump won the popular vote too. This has nothing to do with voters staying at home. Trump won on the economy. I went to the gas station before voting yesterday and a redbull was $4 and a small bag of chips $3. I knew at that point there is a good chance that Trump would win.
It has, as voter turnout could be significantly better. It’s not yet clear what it is, but so far it doesn’t look very good.
What in saying is that it probably doesn’t have much to do with Gaza. People voted on the economy.
Yeah price gouging by companies because of what they got away with during a shitty handling of covid under trump is a great reason to bring him back.
He is back because Americans are stupid and gullible. It really is that simple.
I went to the gas station before voting yesterday and a redbull was $4 and a small bag of chips $3. I knew at that point there is a good chance that Trump would win.
I don’t understand any logic that suggests Trump would improve this situation.
😮💨 point to the biden policy that would please. Then point to the harris campaign platform stating how she’d fix it. In fact harris took steps to signal she wouldn’t fix it by not committing to Khan.
Neither candidate was going to fix it. So whats next in the list?
Like many things, trumpers are happy to believe it whether the logic is there or not.
I’ve seen real people I know personally, people with degrees and with jobs that affect people’s lives, honestly look forward to the lower gas prices and inflation if he were to get elected.
In think there’s just a lot of ignorance, and people not paying attention to real events and falling back to thinking that voting Republican means you support hard work and white people and saving money, while voting Democrat means you support tax & spend and love lazy minorities.
I’m sure Trump will get right on that and reduce those gas station snack prices for you
So fucking predictable.
Remember when Biden stepped down? Do you remember how unpopular he was and the massive wave of hope and support for Kamala that showed itself? Well, what the fuck did you think was gonna happen when Kamala glued herself to Biden, and tried to appeal to center right voters? They refuse to make compromises with the left, try to appeal to the center-right, and then blame the left for not voting for them; classic center/lib playbook, the same thing happens in Portugal, same thing happened in 2016 USA elections.
I thought that Democrats would win DESPITE the absolute dog shit campaign, given everything about Trump, but it was still an absolute dog shit campaign by people who claimed this was the most important election of people’s lives, but then dug their hills in ideologically and refused to compromise with people on their left.
If the situation wasn’t so dire, it would be hilarious to see the double think by Dem voters in this thread:
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“How can Rep voters not hold Trump accountable despite everything he’s done!”
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“It’s not the Dems fault that they lost, despite trying to appeal to the center-right instead of the left; it’s never their fault! It’s the leftists fault for not voting Dem! Kamala did nothing wrong!”
Well, what the fuck did you think was gonna happen when Kamala glued herself to Biden, and tried to appeal to center right voters? They refuse to make compromises with the left, try to appeal to the center-right, and then blame the left for not voting for them; classic center/lib playbook, the same thing happens in Portugal, same thing happened in 2016 USA elections.
The thing is, I strongly agree with you AND the person you replied to because although I’ve been agape at watching Kamala sprint away from the left from essentially the moment her candidacy was announced, and I think Democrat leadership is FAR too in the pocket of corporate interests, and far too welcoming of Republicans, she’s still so very obviously a better choice than Trump that I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around this. I’d have thought that women alone would have pushed Kamala over the top due to the whole Roe v. Wade thing.
In summary - all my grumpiness at the DNC and Kamala for ignoring the left again was still miles short of what would have propelled me to vote for Trump or enable a Trump win.
In summary - all my grumpiness at the DNC and Kamala for ignoring the left again was still miles short of what would have propelled me to vote for Trump or enable a Trump win.
Yeah, as I said, even I though Kamala would win despite everything because Trump is… well, Trump, and I honestly did not think anywhere near this many people would vote for him again. If yesterday someone had told me he was going to win the popular vote, I would not have come anywhere close to believing them. It’s extremely depressing to see how many people still choose to vote for Trump and back him after everything he has done and said he was gonna do.
Same, the difference is i knew that distinction wouldnt bring people out. If you, I’m assuming, a committed voter were reluctant about voting for harris despite everything. What does that mean for people who are fairly indifferent to voting? 😞😭😞😭😞😭
This shit exactly. They literally gave us nothing to vote for. All they really had was abortion, but that’s fuckin it? No other decent policy. And now I wonder if they see this outcome do they think they weren’t right wing enough? Stupid.
Harris and Biden put billions of dollars into a renewable energy fund, and Harris was promising a 20 grand subsidy for first home buyers. It’s not nothing. Y’all just chose not to listen.
You’re trapped in a burning building.
A firefighter hacks the door down and reaches their hand out to pull you free and carry you outside.
And you ask “What’s in it for me?”
I truly don’t think you people grasp how meaningless all this text your wasting is.
This happened because people are stupid. That’s it. That’s the long and short of it. They have no, absolutely no concept whatsoever of how bad things are about to get. There’s no world where the citizenship understands what fascism is where Kamala needed to do anything different than she did.
At this point, I truly don’t think it matters. None of this shit matters. The problem is the people.
My excuse? Firstly, I’m from Europe, I can’t vote in American elections; secondly, I’m replying to people making excuses for why Kamala lost, perhaps you should direct your comment at them.
The ones who need to excuse themselves, in order, are: Republicans; their voters; and finally the Dems for not having primaries (twice), not running a winnable campaign, and trying to appeal to the center-right.
How about the left instead make compromises with reality instead?
Fuck that noise, drama baby leftists who can’t think past tomorrow cost us this election.
How about the left instead make compromises with reality instead?
Not sure if you noticed, but reality called and the Dems just lost. Turns out they can’t win after refusing to compromise with the left and going after center-right voters. The same shit happened in 2016, but Dems refuse to learn. And, as always, blame the “drama baby leftists who can’t accept reality”, while completely missing the irony.
Do you remember Putin getting his ass handed to him by civilians with drones, and it’s still going on now. That so many unwilling Russian men have died that he had to suck Kim’s dick for backup troops? We remember what a pussy he is.
Ask yourself what do you think is going to happen next election? Answer: The Dems are going to go hard center. If the left doesn’t show up after Biden did green energy, IRA, student debt relief, non-compete clauses being banned via FTC, etc, AND to prevent a literal Hitler quoting fascist getting in, then the left either will literally never show up, or doesn’t exist. The left is done. No one is going to run a left platform for fucking decades. Because the left never shows up, or doesn’t exist.
Everything you said has nothing to do with the left, they are basic as shit things that event center and center-right European parties would do. I mean, what does the sentence “did green energy” even mean to you? The US is one of the largest polluters per capita in the world, installing a few solar panels means jack shit. Starting to heavily invest in public transportation, putting forth serious proposals to reduce the use of plastic, etc. would just be a start.
Meanwhile, they were also running on an anti-migration platform, just not as bad as Trump - remember how Democrats were so proud of the fact Trump shot down a Dem proposal that would reduce immigration?
Also, remember when Obama was elected on an anti-war policy in 2008? He even won a Nobel Peace Prize! And remember how Trump was elected in 2016 on a “pull back troops from the Middle East policy”, standing opposite to “Hillary the Hawk”?
Meanwhile, while most of the world condemns Israels actions, and millions of people in the US protest the US involvement in the ongoing genocide, both candidates are in favor of supporting and giving weapons to Israel.
If your argument is “but Biden was so far left”, then you’re a perfect representation of what is wrong with the Dem party and the US in general.
Edit: I almost forgot this beautiful (\s) fucking cherry on top: Dick fucking Cheney endorsed the Dems. And you seriously wanna make the argument they couldn’t have gone more left?
Most of the leftists I know voted for Kamala.
And I love how Democrats’ first move after losing is to blame said leftists. We were the only ones calling out the bad moves of Kamala’s campaign from the beginning and warning what might happen if she didn’t adopt a Walz ticket (or mostly a Walz ticket).
Democrats did this to themselves. It’s the reason why they kept supporting a corpse of a candidate with Joe Biden for so long until the first presidential debate, and it’s also the reason why Hillary was picked over Bernie in 2016 at the DNC.
Leftists weren’t the issue. Democrats’ own willingness to ignore what was happening right in front of them was the issue.
We were the only ones calling out the bad moves of Kamala’s campaign from the beginning
What would have happened if you hadn’t done that? What would have happened if the average dumbass center left capitalis liberal had heard nothing but praise for Kamala from the left?
She would have won. You had a choice. But you decided to tell the truth even when it cost trans people their lives.
Would you have told the truth to the Gestapo asking if there are Jews in your basement?
The same thing. Voters wouldn’t have shown up because they didnt care and harris had jack shit for them or she actively suppressed their voices.
Lesser evil is a stick not a carrot. You dont get the lazy voters out with sticks. Trumps campaign was all carrots for his base.
You have 20+ million voters from 2020 missing. Where are they? Biden at least had positions in his campaign for the left last time. I was trlling everyone locally to get off their asses and vote regardless. Here i was trlling you political engage if obvious souls where harris was weak and instead of recognizing that hey not supporting something like a genocide is fairly trivial you stamped your feet and argued that we were undermining harris.
News flash: she undermined it herself. I got at least 100 harris people to the polls this year to counteract my jill vote. Not once did i try to get people to not to vote for harris. It was always ‘here are all your options, here is what is likely to happen here locally, and in other states.’
The arabs told you exactly what they were going to do and you didnt listen. I did. Harris told you exactly who she was in 2016/2020, and this campaign and you didnt listen. I did. When people tell you what they’re going to do believe them. But clearly you’re smarter than us russian trolls.
Cheers.
The ones over 35 maybe. Young folks believed disinfo. Nobody taught them how to vet information.
Either way, 5 million people is not one vector. People made their choice. It’s time to accept that this isn’t some gaming of the system or fluke. I know decent people that went from Biden to Trump. I disagree with their logic, but I hear where they’re coming from.
Well the entire multiplatform astroturfing campaign from people who call themselves leftists worked! Democrats stayed home instead of voting.
Yup. I spent the last month or so tagging them, and I have not seen a single one today.
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