haha, looks like I had an actual unpopular opinion. Here’s a little story to help set what it’s like here in Australia, one of the world’s large beef producers.

I was driving through an area that had recent flooding, trying to see if I could cut about 800KM off my trip, by cutting through a regional / rural area.

I came to a road, which I wanted to take, that was cut off from the floods. There was a farmer there. I stopped to ask him if there was any way I could proceed.

There was not. He was upset and on edge. I asked if he was ok. He nearly cried. He told me his cows were trapped in an area which was flooded, and they might be dead if the high ground went under. He then did cry and was geniunely distraught for the wellbeing of those animals. There was just nothing to be done. Thousands of acres of land underwater, no way out and his pain for the cows was real.

Farmers are not these crazed psychopaths that you make out. Maybe in some parts of the world? Maybe? People usually like their jobs though, do them with pride and want to do the best they can. Particularly when animals are involved.

This is not one farmer, like your analogy with a landlord. This is a nationwide industry, that is full of good people, providing a great environment for these animals, as a whole. Sure, there will always be a shonky operator, as there are in all walks of life. But, by and large, you are incorrect, and wildly so. At least in Australia.

The Vegan Society says that “In dietary terms (Veganism) denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.”

Vegan.com says “The word vegan was originally defined as a diet free of meat, dairy products, and eggs. The term now also refers to any item, from shoes to shampoo, made without animal products.”

Both pages, and the Wikipedia article, do mention the ethical considerations, but all make it clear that that is distinct from dietary Veganism.

It’s all very well to say that there is a deeper philosophy and decision-making framework driving one’s choices than simply “meat bad” - and that’s a noble motivation! - but you appear to be in the minority in your claim that a vegan diet can still include animal products. Maybe vegan-inspired, maybe “ethically aligned with Veganism”, but not “a vegan diet”.

EDIT: to be clear - from everything I can tell, Veganism is a sensible, moral, responsible, ethical, frugal choice; most people could derive great benefits both to their health and their wallet from drastically reducing or entirely cutting out meat and animal products, as well as benefitting the world in general. It’s a noble choice, it’s one I fully support, and I’ve seriously cut down my own meat intake over the last couple years and have great admiration for people who cut it out entirely. I’m not arguing with you because I love meat or hate Veganism - I’m arguing with you because, by being a dipshit about definitions, you are undermining a worthwhile cause and making it look ridiculous to people sitting on the fence.

Vegetarian, not vegan. Essential difference. True Indians, that’s native Americans, were dieting mainly on meat in their prime by the way. Until the white men came and took all they had away from them, including their land and bisons.