Comment by xyz@lemmus.org on Flatpak integration is still not great

Its even worse when you force Firefox to use wayland its icon doesn’t even show.

Edit: Oh since everyone now is confused; I only have the flatpak version of Firefox installed yet it doesn’t use the pinned icon and doesn’t even use the firefox icon under wayland at all.

Yes. I do have some applications installed as flatpak. What’s the problem?

That’s the whole problem, don’t use flatpak. It’s the worst way of solving a problem that’s already solved.

What problem?
How is it already solved?

This comment chain feels like talking to a brick wall. It’s just “don’t use flatpak” over and over again but with different words.

The problem with dependencies, that’s the only reason for people to look at flatpak.

See my other comment, and see https://flatkill.org/

Almost all popular applications on flathub come with filesystem=host, filesystem=home or device=all permissions

So if I checked the permissions with flatseal and that statement isn’t true for any of my flatpacks…where do we go from here?

You can uninstall your package since you are not able to use it anymore. lol

Hey it’s your pc you can fill it with whatever you want, as long as it makes you happy!

The problem with dependencies, that’s the only reason for people to look at flatpak.

no, not really, flatpak is a distro agnostic way to build and distribute packages, which is HUGE for developers and distros, since those dont have to waste time to repackage (built+test) software to work on their systems and instead use that time to deal with other issues.

flatkill.org

The author should really take that site down. AFAIK, all the points are now invalid.

The point is still that you distribute a OS with your application, that’s just silly and lazy.

silly and lazy

Not really, if you think about how many distros there are and how many people are currently wasting time with re-packaging software over and over for them i think you’ll come to realize that this is a very clever and efficient move. The way it is done currently seems rather silly in comparison.

Sidenote: You keep using the term OS … which is false in the sense, that flatpak doenst come with a direct hardware layer / kernel

This is Docker’s whole shtick, and look how popular that is 🤷‍♂️

I just feel like you could have provided alternatives? How is it solved? Genuine question…

Package managers like apt or rpmn(or whatever for your distro) are the standard way to install software. If there’s a good reason to avoid them, OK, but no good reason was stated here.

@orcrist @lambda

There definitely is a problem that flatpak is trying to solve. That problem is dependency hell.

This most often (or rather most famously) occurs with python packaging. Sometimes you can have one package that requires a version that is incompatible with another version that another package requires. That’s why people use python venv these days (or just use pipx).

IMO a better way of solving this is with nix. With nix, it doesn’t require a container, it just builds in isolation.

Thing is, this will probably end up a VHS vs Beta Max.

I am very impressed by nix. I have tried nixOS and it was very nice. But, I might have to try the package manager as a standalone to see how I like that.

@lambda a lot of people do nix-env -ia nameOfPackage. I would recommend doing it properly with a file, and you just direct that command to the file (I would probably setup an alias). It gives you that declarative nature that nix is known for.

Basically you install the application inside a little OS with dependencies each time you install a flatpak, that OS is rarely updated with security patches and most of the time has full access to the host OS. https://flatkill.org/

This is a lazy and insecure way of distributing applications with no real benefits.

Exactly. The QA of flatpaks is done in “trust me bro” framework. You can just go back to windows at this point.

If I install a package on my distro I know it went through a shitload of testing and I can be sure I am not installing some crap on my system.

I don’t know what distro you use, but packages in their repos have “maintainers” that are usually volunteers. Downloading from repos from the distro is trusting whoever the maintainer is there. I don’t see how that is any better than a flatpak… At least with Flatpak many packages are maintained by the developer. I believe that would be more secure.

Major distros are usually backed by a compamny which provides enterprise version. Maintainers are actually employees paid for their work. Even if you pick a derivate distro you will inherit that testing process. So please get your facts straight before talking, you obviously need it. Here how it is done: https://openqa.opensuse.org Each package update, distro install process goes through automated testing. This detects bugs, dependency issues, you name it. If something fails package goes back for human review. And as you can see it is an open process which YOU can review any time.

So… how are the flatpaks tested? Please show me some facts. I am interested in this new “trust me bro” QA framework.

@lambda @BeigeAgenda

Imo a better alternative to flatpak is the nix package manager, but as I said to the other guy this’ll most likely end up a VHS/betamax situation.

Both things are trying to solve dependency hell in different ways. Flatpak just builds and runs everything in a container, where as nix sets up virtual environments and builds things in isolation with per package dependency trees in an effort to make builds entirely reproducible (to the point that no matter what system you compile on, you will get the same hash).

Edit: as the other guy said, just use your systems package manager unless it doesn’t exist in the repo and you can’t be bothered to package it yourself. It’s the standard recommended method.

How does your server instance here on Lemmy show as “null” it’s not even a URL??

@lambda it’s not a Lemmy server, it’s a mastodon server. I assume it has something to do with that.

Oh, I didn’t know they are intercompatible…

I use Arch btw

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Flatpak integration is still not great(lemmy.world)

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