“In four years Mike van Erp has filmed 1,400 drivers using their phones, leading to 1,800 penalty points, £110,000 of fines — and him being assaulted by disgruntled motorists. Is he a road safety hero or just a darned nuisance? Nick Rufford joins him on patrol”
I’ve watched a few of his videos. I should be surprised that he catches so many drivers in their phones, but in and around London? Not surprised at all.
I wouldn’t be bothered if he was reporting drivers putting people’s life in danger, but people stuck in a traffic jam checking their phone? Many people rely on driving for their work of for their independence, I don’t think that the state should take that away from people just because they held their phone for a second in a traffic jam. If you’ve got your handbrake on then I really don’t see what the issue is.
I have very little sympathy for people who were using their phones while actively driving, especially if they’re looking at their screens to use them, but honestly the law as it stands is too strict imo.
Like, if you’re driving and you get a call on your phone, and your friend hands it to you so you can put it on your magnetic hands free mount, you could get 6 penalty points just for that brief moment of handling the phone.
Either way, the guy sure as hell isn’t a hero, he’s a tool of the oppression of the state
If people rely on driving for their work or independence, they should not be using their phones while driving. It’s not hard. A friend of mine is a train driver and you can imagine that being caught using your phone in that job is instant dismissal. His solution is to turn the phone off and put it in his bag, therefore there can be no temptation to use the phone and absolute proof in the case of an incident that phone usage wasn’t part of it. If a motorist can’t resist the temptation to use their phone, they should be doing the same.
The overwhelming majority of people ‘caught’ by Mikey seem to be using social media, not taking urgent work calls.
It is still dangerous to use the phone in traffic jams, because what phone users do while texting or doing Instagram is to be looking down while using their peripheral vision to see if traffic is moving, or even less. So they see a movement and move off, not having seen the pedestrian crossing through the gaps. I’ve witnessed a crash caused by such a distracted driver - albeit it was in Houston - the phone user next to us heard a car horn from behind and without looking just went and hit the car in front. Had there been someone crossing the road in front they would have been crushed.
Being in a traffic jam is still actively driving. Mikey might not be a hero, but calling him a “tool of the oppression of the state” is severely overegging the pudding, when to avoid such “oppression” all you have to do is not use your phone and pay attention to driving.
I’m not discussing whether it’s hard to avoid texting while driving or anything like that. Obviously, it’s not hard. Phones are a distraction to drivers, and distractions are dangerous while driving.
With all of that said, however, I believe that The laws of society should be just. It wasn’t so long ago that people were hanged for stealing a loaf of bread. While that’s clearly a more extreme punishment, my point simply is that I’m interested only in whether the punishment, loss of one’s livelihood, fits the crime - using a phone while completely stopped. I haven’t yet been convinced of that.
Under the law, if you pull into a lay-by, stop the car, turn off the engine, remove the key, and leave the car to take a phone call, you can still be charged and found guilty of using a phone “while driving”. If you don’t think that is an absurd overreach, then honestly, I have nothing more to discuss with you - we would have such radically different values that we could never reach consensus. Edit: The source for this claim is from CPS legal guidance which states: “…a person might still be driving even when they turned off the engine and got out of the car”, but admits that it would be “unlikely” to be prosecuted, but this is just one example demonstrating how selective enforcement means that we are all capable of having our lives completely destroyed by the state, all under colour of law, should they choose it.
There are countless things which could distract drivers in stopped traffic and we do not regulate most of them. We don’t ban listening to any kind of media, we don’t ban conversation within the vehicle, we don’t ban the use of two-way communication radios. But if you’re stopped in traffic, listening to Spotify and a song comes on that you’re not a fan of and you dare to press “skip”? That’s you half-way to losing your job if it’s your unlucky day.
The only question I have is: Is that justice? That’s the only point I want to discuss.
Has Mikey gotten anybody in trouble who’s pulled into a lay-by, stopped the car, turned off the engine, removed the key, and left the car to take a phone call? If not, I don’t see what your beef is with him.
Under the law, if you pull into a lay-by, stop the car, turn off the engine, remove the key, and leave the car to take a phone call, you can still be charged and found guilty of using a phone “while driving”.
Don’t be absurd. There is exactly one case where this was discussed and it was a suspected drink driver who had been observed to be driving and in motion (look up the case here: https://vlex.co.uk/vid/pinner-v-everett-793596681). There are exactly 0 prosecutions for driving offences for people who weren’t actually in their car and driving when the alleged offence took place.
Also two way radios are banned if they are hand held. The rules are the same for two way radios - they must be hands-free.
I don’t agree.
Being stopped in traffic is part of driving.
If being able to drive is so critical to personal freedom or for work, there’s all the more reason to ensure performance and compliance with the law.
Compliance with the law is assured by connecting up the phone to an appropriate system or leaving it well alone. Rather than taking the phone from the friend in your scenario, ask them to deal with it.
Do you intervene when the safety law is broken, or do you wait until after an incident has occurred?
Road safety laws are there for a reason. Many are written in blood.
What additional danger is posed by someone distracted by their phone stopped in traffic if they’re holding it in their hand, as opposed to it being on a hands-free mount?
The main difference is the tendency to take your eyes off the road to look at your phone and the tendency to want to interact with the screen and any buttons; more likely in the hand held scenario.
Some studies have shown that driving while taking a call was distracting whether or not a handheld or hands-free phone was used, but as I understand things it was felt that enforcing an outright ban on using a mobile phone would be more difficult than banning the use of a handheld phone.
Source: the lovely people at RoSPA - a pdf link to one of their factsheets is here
I first came across them when trying to understand the evidence base for booster seats and the age / weight cut-offs that were being used; enormously helpful people.
