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133 points
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As a queer person, extending the acronym past what is necessary feels like pandering in the best light, and purposely trying to bait ridicule in the worst. The whole point of LGBT was to include anyone on the spectrum that was gay or trans, and the Q was supposed to include anyone who considers themselves queer, even if they don’t meed those parameters. I can understand wanting to include I because intersex people are often left out of the conversation, and I even understand A because there is a lot of debate even within the LGBTQ community itself as to whether asexuals are considered queer or not. But when you start incorporating numbers, symbols, or extending past 5 letters within the acronym, you are defeating the purpose of having an acronym, creating confusion, baiting ridicule, and even making people not explicitly represented in the acronym feel excluded.

And there is already a single, all encompassing, inclusive, one syllable word that describes the community and all who occupy it: “Queer.” It’s easier to say, remember, and hell, even type if you are typing LGBTQ past 5 letters. But because of it being appropriated and used as a slur, there are many even within the community who are even afraid to utter it, let alone identify with it. Which is a god damned shame there is nothing inherently wrong the word, cause even in its original meaning, it meant someone who was outside the norm or otherworldly, and in literature has been used to describe characters like Gandalf, and characters in Shakespeare.

It describes me without having to explain or justify how or why. It describes how I feel as a person, how others see me, how I interact and relate to others. Its an adjective that can be verbed and adverbed. It’s sharp and provocative, yet also warm and natural, like a forest green. People who have adopted and embraced the word for themselves feel the love within the word, and can extend it to others. And even for those outside the community, those who are brave enough to use it when talking in our defense come off as more decisive and confrontational, than the person who thinks adding another letter or number to the acronym will make them seem more legitimate.

It’s time we stop fearing our word. It’s time we recognize the difference between queer as an insult, and queer as a description of who we are, and we need to extend that to people who are willing to talk about us and our struggles or come to our defense. The word is only as evil as we are willing to reject it, and I will be dead in the ground before I let our word be the domain of queerphobes and bigots.

edit: It’s late and I’m going to bed. Apparently some people think I’m a self hating queer for thinking the acronym should be dropped for an all inclusive term, and so be it. It’s late and I want to get some sleep. And a lot of the people making this argument I know haven’t read past the first paragraph, much less to here. Anything clarification they could want can be found here and in my other posts here. Otherwise, if they are not going to put in the effort to read, I’m not going to put in the effort to respond.

edit 2: I wanted to make a separate inclusion because I have had a chance to sleep and cool off, and I wanted to address some of the more combative posts in my replies: I get it. We as a community suffer attacks constantly, even from within the community, so I understand why so many here are on guard and skeptical of my intentions. And I’ll admit, my post probably could be better written. I’m not exactly the best at articulating my thoughts. But the point of my post is not to exclude anyone from the community, but rather embrace a word that includes everyone. I would like to hear counterpoints to my argument, because maybe what I need is a different perspective on the issue. I would love to hear from people who prefer the acronym, and why they feel it maybe more inclusive. I am a flawed human being with many faults. I grew up in a conservative background, and my life up to this point has been trying to unlearn a lot of that. But I did not write this with the intention of excluding or singling out anyone. Forgive me I have done so.

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2 points

I’ve come to realize that whatever it is that causes people to have alternative sexual preferences, I’ve got a little bit of it. However, I’m heterosexual, so I don’t really identify with the community. I could accept the queer label, though.

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2 points
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Deleted by creator
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1 point

Right there with you. World has always shat on dudes that don’t fit the traditional “masculine” role.

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5 points

My biggest qualm is a qualm I have with any acronym/abbreviation. If you’re going to introduce a letter that is unknown to many, then define your term. Otherwise, I’m going to assume it’s a typo, or I going to not recognize it.

All acronyms and abbreviations, or at least those that aren’t commonplace, should be defined somewhere adjacent to their use, or else you are excluding people.

Speech/text is only useful if you’re using it in a way that appropriately conveys a message to it’s intended audience.

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-1 points

How to defeat a slur, take it as your own. It’s simply as easy as that.

Growing up I was fat as fuck, people made fun of me all the time. One day I decided it was enough, I started making fun of myself for being fat, suddenly everyone left me alone because it no longer got the response they were trying to get.

Ignoring / getting angry is what they want, turn around and happily scream yeah I’m queer, ya looking for a good time? (For example) ya know what’s gonna happen? Their gonna start stammering and come up with another way to bother you, and when you don’t give in and don’t show a reaction they will end up storming away angrily. Then you have something to laugh at for the rest of the day.

What the fuck do you think pride parades are for?

My grandfather got caught downtown Toronto in one and spent 2 hours throwing slurs. Ya think a single person in that parade cared?

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5 points

spent 2 hours throwing slurs

Lmao “Grandpa how was your day?”

“Pretty good actually. I spent 2 hours shouting slurs at strangers”

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7 points

Can we apply this logic to the flag as well? I thought the rainbow of the pride flag was meant to represent diversity and cover all orientations…like how a rainbow spectrum of light literally covers all colours. Now specific groups are being added and people are finding ways to add another line to represent something. The flag is a mess.

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1 point

I tend to think of the Progress flag as a product of the times, not as a replacement for the rainbow Pride flag. We added these additional signifiers specifically because those groups were under-represented or under particular attack, not because they aren’t included in the Pride rainbow.

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Can we make “gay” = happy again?

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2 points

I had a teacher in highschool (04-08) whose name was B Gay. In his lifetime Gay want from “happy” to a slur. Machine shop was the best because of him too

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Glad you had a good teacher.

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2 points

It is the intonation that matters more than anything else. The wording itself has very little meaning until it is meant as an insult or a compliment.

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4 points

I know others do but I don’t like the word queer. I say LGBT+.

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8 points

I hate labels in general. I’m in the Q part (enby) and I’m completely fine with it, I don’t need my own letter, nor do I need to identify with anything.

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12 points
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Extending the acronym to cover everyone is becoming ridiculous. I think we just need a word that covers all the bases rather than trying to shoe horn one more letter/number/symbol/wingding that’s already becoming difficult to keep track of. It doesn’t bring attention to any one group, nor does it help individual groups as a whole when you’re summed up into a letter.

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7 points

There’s something in the back of my head telling me it’s not an acronym, is it?

If it was it’d be pronounced ligbitikwitwo

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5 points

It’s an initialism

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8 points

You’re correct, it’s an initialism.

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41 points

Indeed… all extending the acronym does is give the Far Right ammo for their unfunny “Alphabet Cult” jokes

At some point ya just gotta say “Look if you’re not straight and not cis or just think that may be the case. You’re in the club”

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4 points
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some of my favorite ideas i’ve seen:

the Queer community

the non-cis non-het community

the Pride community

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2 points
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-42 points

This is the same type of self hating bigotry that made the Bisexuals unwelcome at pride and transgender people shit on for 30 years.

Fuck you and anyone who thinks like you.

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3 points

This is the brain of the terminally online

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0 points
19 points

For advocating for an all inclusive term rather than an acronym that can be chopped to exclude people?

Yeah fuck me I guess.

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-13 points

Well you’re doing it by trying to exclude the parts you don’t agree with…

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9 points

I mean, I don’t identify as queer and plenty of my friends don’t. One of my exes did and great for him but this just seems like the wrong argument. There likely just needs to be a technical, non-inflammatory term.

I’m glad you like it though.

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2 points

The most all-encompassing term I’ve seen is sexual minority. Basically non-cis or non-straight

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6 points

There’s some argument over adopting the term GSM (Gender and Sexual Minorities) as an inoffensive general term.

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22 points

I wish everyone was this rational

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0 points

Two spirit is a native cultural thing and I think acknowledging it is a good idea. It used to just be LGBT, why should we stop expanding inclusion the moment you find a word you’re personally comfortable with?

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40 points

LGBTQIAPDSMFC2… at some point you’ve got to consider the cut off otherwise you might as well write out the whole alphabet.

Queer is good to me as there’s a difference between “Ben is queer” and “Ben is a queer”

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3 points

I liked the MOGAI acronym since by nature it includes all of them but Queer also works as well.

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2 points

I mean going on your second point, I think it demonstrates the difference between a slur and a descriptor is how it’s used as a word.

Like transgender is neutral term but we see it becoming a scare word by fascists recently by changing how its used in speech. Like “transgendered”, “transgenderism” or “transing” (as a note, it’s kinda scary how the first two no longer set off window’s spellcheck). Basically turning trans as a state of being adjective into a verb makes it seem like an act you can do to someone or have happen to you.

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11 points

Better question: What makes you think they are not included in LGBT or Queer? Also, I know the inclusion of two spirits within the LGBT acronym is contentious with many native Americans as well. It’s why the pride flag with the native American feathers is frowned upon at many queer events.

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9 points

If everyone is included in queer why be anything other than the Q community? What elevates some queerness to a place where it deserves recognition on its own and why is some queerness relegated to a bucket labelled “Miscellaneous”?

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33 points

i am really glad you took the time to put all of that into words. i, a queer person, agree completely.

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