Property developer and CEO Tim Gurner: “We need to see unemployment rise. Unemployment has to jump 40, 50 percent in my view. We need to see pain in the economy. We need to remind people that they work for the employer, not the other way around.”
Somehow you see all the reasons why coops are hard but you beleave sharing could easily resolve the conflicts about scarce resources.
Establishing successful coops would allow socialists to show that their values are rooted in reality, especially because it is difficult.
Somehow you see all the reasons why coops are hard but you beleave sharing could easily resolve the conflicts about scarce resources.
That’s funny, I don’t remember saying that.
Establishing successful coops would allow socialists to show that their values are rooted in reality, especially because it is difficult.
I invite you to respond to the content of my critiques of co-ops
OK, I exaggerated. You wrote that beach houses could be shared or distributed in a lottery.
You have clear arguments why coops are not an option. My point is that you can transfer them onto socialism. In socialism, there is a higher floor on worker compensation because workers don’t accept being exploited. But then how do workers deal with their country having less goods available?
If you can handle it as a country you can handle it as a coop.
OK, I exaggerated. You wrote that beach houses could be shared or distributed in a lottery.
I listed two examples in response to you suggesting that competition is the only option for scarce resource distribution, so… you’re obviously wrong on that, which might be why you didn’t reply at the time - and still haven’t actually responded to the points made in-context.
I listed two examples that took five seconds to think of because they’re how some actual human societies have distributed resources (and duties) historically. There are more ways, of course. Nice thing about having power is we would get to experiment with things like what to do with luxury properties.
You have clear arguments why coops are not an option.
They’re an option in edge cases but they cannot be dominant under the capitalist system. I’m responding to the idea you’ve been suggesting - that just wanting to do more co-ops will address the fundamental oppressions of capitalism.
My point is that you can transfer them onto socialism.
I’m not really sure what that means and am surprised there’s any point here aside from “I don’t like socialism, a thing I know almost nothing about”.
In socialism, there is a higher floor on worker compensation because workers don’t accept being exploited.
It’s always weird to get to the “parroting language” portion of a disagreement.
Socialism doesn’t really have a single definition, as it’s relative to the socialists that win the revolution and what they can implement while under constant violent threat by capital. It is always about expropriation of the means of production and attempting to run the economy in response to human need rather than the petty chaos of capital, but the way in which that happens is a matter of material context.
For example, some people wouldn’t say you have socialism so long as there are differences in compensation, which would require a long path to arrive at - many steps with socialists in power and the bourgeoisie suppressed before the society would be deemed socialist. I don’t think having that detailed of boundaries really matters - the important thing is that the bourgeoisie are suppressed and there is a winning struggle to depose capitalism entirely.
But then how do workers deal with their country having less goods available?
I have no idea where this scenario came from. It sounds like you have some false suppositions about capitalism and socialism and are assuming everyone else has them too.
You may find it more rewarding to read up on both topics. Our societies are full of propaganda and bullshit about both but it takes a lot of reading to recognize the patterns and tropes.
If you can handle it as a country you can handle it as a coop.
???
