A jury has found a delivery driver not guilty in the shooting of a YouTube prankster who was following him around a mall food court earlier this year
Pulling out a gun should have a VERY HIGH bar. This kid is clearly an idiot but was the bar high enough to kill him?
I am not a lawyer. So everything I say could be wrong and every state is different but generally I think there’s a five point test for claims of self defense: Avoidance, Innocence, Imminence, Proportionality, and Reasonableness.
Avoidance is moot because I think this is Virginia and I think they have a no-retreat provision. Innocence is just that you didn’t willingly engage in a fight that got out of control. So that applies. Imminence applies because it happened in the moment. I just don’t see how Proportionality applies here. I just don’t see how holding a cell phone is proportional to a shooting. Emotionally I get it that the YouTuber is a major jerkwad and may have deserved a comeuppance. But I don’t think the jury followed the law.
I’m not a lawyer. Everything I said there could be wrong
I’m happy he didn’t die over this, but I’m also kind of happy he got a little fucked up over it.
I tend to think about these situations with small people as the initial victim. How far should a smaller person or woman let something go before they can defend themselves? If the person is way, way bigger, do you just have to let yourself get beat?
I honestly don’t know what the right answer is here. I don’t like that it seems like it’s easier to shoot someone because of a threatening feeling. This makes me think of Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman. People will say these are completely unrelated cases but both involved a shooting and a claim of self defense. Again I don’t know what the answer is.
Looks like someone has paid attention to Andrew Branca @ The Law of Self Defense.
I kinda waver on reasonableness for cases like this but I generally think using a weapon against an unarmed aggressor is reasonable when there is a significant size disparity or a disability or something like that. In this case the “prankster” was significantly larger and had a group of friends with him so I don’t think it’s out of the question that the use of a gun for defense is reasonable in this situation.
If the defendant has been carrying a less lethal self defense measure, such as a taser, mace, or a baton, and had used that to defend himself, would you see that as more proportional?
From the description of the incident, it definitely sounded like he feared for his life. A 6 foot something guy keeps advancing on him, asking why he’s thinking of the guy’s penis. He tells the guy to leave him alone multiple times, but the guy keeps advancing. He retreats multiple times, but the guy keeps at it. He even tries knocking the phone out of the guy’s hand, but the guy keeps at it.
It definitely sounds like the guy was afraid of where this was going and tried all of the non-lethal options (retreat, tell the person to stop) before resorting to pulling out his gun. The YouTube “pranker” has nobody to blame but himself. He should have stopped when asked instead of repeatedly pressing the defendant for a YouTube “prank” video.
(I use “prank” in quotes because I don’t consider this type of thing a real prank. It’s just a guy acting like an idiot and calling it “a prank.” A real prank should leave all involved laughing when it’s revealed, not leave one person fearing for their life.)
Well like the article said, he fucked up by shooting immediately after drawing the weapon, instead of giving Cook (the YouTuber) a chance to see the gun and finally back off. I agree with their decision to keep him in jail because of that one simple fact. The guy should have warned him that he was going to shoot if Cook didn’t back down.
This is wrong and will firmly land you on the wrong side of the law in many places. Pulling a gun is a last resort to defend yourself when de-escalation doesn’t work. You pull the gun when you’ve already determined that you have to fire it. Otherwise you’re just escalating and making the situation more dangerous for yourself and any bystanders. This is also why I don’t carry a gun in the first place even though I might legally be allowed to.
From the description of the incident, it definitely sounded like he feared for his life.
No it fucking doesn’t. The whole thing lasted less than 30 seconds and the driver never tried to retreat. He told the prankster no a few times, tried to swat the phone out of his hands, and then shot him. It’s not shocking that the jury had a difficult time coming up with a verdict.
the whole point of firearms is that it’s deadly force. you can’t fire one at a person without being ready to take their life because it’s always a likely outcome.
But no one was killed. You can’t put a person in jail for shooting at someone else assuming that their intent was to kill.
This is coming from someone who despise the idea of owning a gun.
He did try to back away. And punching someone significantly larger than oneself is generally unwise.
