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3 points

I jive with most of what you write… but you have weird things sprinkled throughout…

Like, differentiating between the pharaoh and the state… the pharaoh was the state. I mean, there was more of a state than just the pharaoh… but practically the pharaoh was the state.

It’s like saying that there is a difference between the Russian state and Putin… technically yes, but practically no. Putin is the Russian state. Obviously there is bureaucracy as well, but is just a weird separation.

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1 point

The big thing imho is that for the prolitariat it is the same. As long as there is an oppressive regime plucking the fruits of the labour, there is exploitation.

Feudalism was the main capitalist system Marx argued against.

That feudalist system is very old and embedded in our history.

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5 points

Obviously we have different definitions of capitalism… which makes the rest of the discussion difficult.

Fundamentally, serfs in a feudal society did not own the right to their own labor for the portion of their labor assigned to their lord.

Fundamentally, people in modern capitalist societies do own the rights to their own labor.

Practically, the ability to exercise those rights is severely limited (which is what the meme is trying to point out). There are reasonable arguments that the poor in modern capitalism have less freedom than serfs of feudal societies… but that doesn’t make them equivalent.

And, for what it’s worth, Marx wasn’t arguing about 12th century feudalism… that was some 700 years before the form of capitalism that was present in his time.

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0 points

I think that the main factor is that I am off opinion that capitalist structures are present before the industrial period. But that the exploitation mechanism is different. I thought too have read something of the kind in Marx, but I stand corrected.

However the hooks of the mechanism were always present. I think that to say that capitalism was absent in history, while capital (in form of possession of wealth, production or time) was present is a bit myopic.

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Marx identified feudalism as a system distinct from capitalism, separated historically by a transitory system called mercantilism.

Mercantilism may be considered as a kind of proto-capitalism, because it entails the employer-employee relationship, but lacks the systemic consequences of capital accumulation, which depends on continuous growth enabled by the changes in production following the industrial revolution.

Marx identified feudal and capitalist societies both as characterized by “class struggles”, that is, having multiple classes with mutually antagonistic interests, as had “all hitherto existing society”.

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