God help them. The slaughter to come is probably beyond our imagining
I guess I just don’t understand what end you hope to achieve by policing people having a positive response to resistance against genocide and colonization.
Are you just hoping to extol the virtues of stoicism?
Because the point you keep trying to make over and over again is “you shouldn’t be happy, do you know that resisting oppression will actually incite even more oppression?”
Which is barely half a step away from a general defeatist attitude. Your position is basically “You’re allowed to show support, but remember to couch it in extreme pessimism about the hopelessness of ever changing the world for the better.” With friends like that, who needs enemies?
I just don’t understand why that’s the hill you’re choosing to die on. The most charitable interpretation I have is that you just picked a bad position to defend, and you need to stop trying to post through it
I’m extolling the virtue of sobriety, not stoicism. This isn’t a football game where we get to cheer when good team score and bad team fumble. These are real lives at stake, and we should actually wait to see that this current uprising improves their lives before we decide it actually was a good thing.
If Israel launches a ground invasion (which they will) and kills 200,000 Palestinians, and you ask us “was this good” everyone here will rightly answer no. That won’t stop the uprising from being justified and understandable, but it will from being good.
Liberationary struggle is not hopeless, that’s clearly evidenced throughout history, but pretending every revolutionary act of violence no matter how ineffectual it is is good is exactly how you breed adventurism. We know this in a leftist context I don’t know why it’s so hard to transfer that to a Palestinian context.
You’re just using the logic that rationalizes pessimism as a virtue.
“If I’m pessimistic and I’m right then I avoid disappointment, but if I’m pessimistic and I’m wrong then I can be pleasantly surprised.”
Which, if that’s the the worldview you want to adhere to them more power to you. But if the only thing at stake is whether or not you have egg on your face for something that is incredibly good and justified in principle but might maybe later turn out to have been a blunder tactically, then I don’t see what’s so important about making sure everyone else is as pessimistic as you choose to be.
The “real lives at stake” will be at stake no matter how we feel about it, because our input has literally no bearing on how Palestinians choose to resist. And I don’t see how second guessing the people who are putting their lives at stake is the more principled stance to take which you must endure everyone adheres to. The fact they have enough hope and revolutionary optimism to take action despite suffering under decades of genocide occupation is itself worthy of hope and optimism.
I don’t see how “wait and see” is pessimism. There are lots of immediate consequences that can be reasonable inferred (like the death toll from a Israeli land invasion), and those immediate consequences are on the whole bad, so a realistic, not pessimist take on the situation is that the next few days are going to be very unpleasant for the Palestinians even if they do achieve strategic victories in the end. Maybe I’m taking a more consequentialist tack than you, but a move that is justified on principles but strategically folly is still a bad deal in the end.
The “real lives at stake” will be at stake no matter how we feel about it, because our input has literally no bearing on how Palestinians choose to resist.
At least we agree on that.
