Seriously how are they wrapping their heads around that the racist hegemon wants to wipe both Palestine and Russia off the earth, and is funding their enemies in both cases?? Do they think the US doesn’t know where their interests lie?
US: Allied to Israel and Ukraine. Gives them billions in weaponry. Consistently votes against Palestinian statehood. Funds the murder of countless Palestinians.
Russia: Consistently votes in favor of Palestinian statehood. The USSR even fought a short war against Israel in the 1960s.
“im criticizing Palestinian resistance, because right now they’re actually fighting back and the worng civilians are being killed”
Never saw so many people condemn this kind of atrocities by the regime. Also, saying that “their children have not chosen this” reminds me of the apologies on fascists. I can tell you yes, under mussoloini his ideology was mandatory so the people didnt choose it, but on the other hand they were affected irreversibly. To this day the ideology survived, and not by any mandatory dictate of the government.
On your comment more generally, we dont get to choose how the oppressed people fight back.
TLDR: the israelis are still genocidal, they act on their own will whether they are children or not.
With all due respect, I think there a lot of serious confusion running through your comment, to the extent that I can make out what you ‘argument’ is supposed to be as it seems to be jumping a bit inexplicably between unrelated pointed (although feel free to clarify). I really not sure what your points about Mussolini and ideology being mandatory or not are trying to say. Like are you saying that the children should be killed because they were subject to fascist propaganda? Should every Hindu child be murdered because they subject to fascist Hindutva propaganda? Should every Ukrainian child? Islamism serves a similar function to fascism in Islamic societies. Should every child whose parents are Islamist been killed? Wtf are you talking about? Like how the fuck can anyone thing this kind of reasoning is not only moronically fucking stupid, and insane, but also evil is beyond me and speaks volumes about how far the modern left has fallen in nihilism.
Nowhere have I criticized Palestinian resistance, but you seem to be inferring that, from, I guess, the recognize of the trivially obvious fact of how reactionary Hamas are (just read their history or charter). So what? Nothing at all could ever be criticized if there’s a power imbalance? That’s insane. The Khmer Rouge originally were the underdogs, as were the Shining Path in Peru. If they should obviously not get a pass, it’s not clear to me why Islamists should without a lot of argument. And yes, if a particular form of your resistance is killing children, then your resistance is not progressive or politically sensible to that degree. That in no way means that Palestinian right to self-defence should not be unequivocally supported, but that doesn’t contradict in the slightest condemnation of certain acts that any sane Marxist.
This also says alot about your ignorance of actual historical Marxist and Bolshevik policy on these points. The Bolsheviks never supported any national liberation movement unconditionally. It had to be a relatively progressive force. In certain cases they made mistakes, such as in the degree of their support for, say, the Guomingdang. The 20th century has provided ample evidence that bourgeois national liberation movements are dangerous, though in many circumstances should be provided critical support, in the interests of creating a context where communist movements can develop. We could also take another Islamist group, the FLN in Algeria. On the one hand, they were the only feasible body capable of defeating the French colonizers, but they detracts in no way from how intrinsically reactionary they were socially or politically, as evidenced by the fact that they massacred, tortured, wiped out the Communist revolutionaries. Hamas would do the exact same if they had a full state of their own. Specific national liberation movements should be supported to the extent that they are progressive forces in their historical context.
Suffice it to say that if the question is whether it is ever justified to kill children I’d say the answer is in 99.99999999999% of cases a resounding “obviously fucking not you fucking moronic psychopath”, not only because of moral and ethical considerations which are not changed by the political circumstances, but also because it is politically stupid of the highest degree, unless you are a fascistic Islamist group whose political ideology is intrinsically apocalyptic and whose long-term political interests are in accelerated destabilization of the geopolitical region, which will only benefit Islamists, not leftists and so not, in the long-term, the interests of the masses who live in this region.
People making some kind of mysterious jump in their ‘reasoning’ from the correct point that ‘Palestinians in Gaza have the right to defend themselves, and the only way they have to currently do so is through political and military structures which are dominated by Hamas’, to ‘we cannot recognize as evil and depraved the torture, rape, and the murder of children’. Or the insane assumption that they are actually politically productive.
There’s a similarly piss-poor, vague, ambiguous suggestion you seem to be making when you compare a point to fascism apologism (first off, if you are actually accusing me of that, go fuck yourself with a cactus), which is bizarre. The fact that a fascism engages in poor reasoning by using that kind of statement proves absolutely nothing, and thinking otherwise is obviously confused. I don’t give a fuck what it reminds you over. Refute the point or don’t, but don’t pretend you are by vague associations. I can make the exact same kind of argument to someone who says ‘vegetarism is good’ but responding ‘reminds me of something Hitler apologists would say, as Hitler was a vegetarian’. You seem to be making no less insane a ‘point’ there. If you really that stuck at a level of reasoning by vibes, associations, connotations, or that you cannot recognize the obvious point that different people can use the same set of words in different contexts with radically different purposes, meanings, and that in one case it could be done logically and in another illogically, then you really need to read some fucking theory. If we were talking about a hypothetical Eastern European society which the US was bombing, and the main opposition force was an explicitly fascist party, then I wonder how many people on this site would support it, though it seems to be as self-evident a political proposition as there could be for a Marxist that fascists should not be supported under any circumstances. In that case, we could still make arguments
The current strategy of Hamas, which restrains that of all others in Gaza because it is dominant, is not the optimal one imo, though I’m not there, though that doesn’t seem to matter when we make the obvious realization that it will lessen, not strengthen the likelihood of the construction of actual secular socialist movements. That being said, Hamas is the fault of Israel, and Israel bears ultimate responsibility for what is happening. Palestinians are in a completely fucked situation where armed resistance can only happen through or in conjunction with Hamas. The united from with Hamas and Islamic Jihad from the more progressive Palestinian groups is the only thing they can do. I agree. But that does not mean in any way that the regressive aspects and tactics they use, which are not going to aid the communist movement of history in the long-term, should not be recognized.
You last comment seems to be going from a triviality to a depraved insanity. Children do have a (developing) will. Yes. Fucking obviously. But going from that to ‘they are genocidal’ is such a vague jump in argument. They are born into the structures of Israeli apartheid, and the apartheid program of much of Israeli society. But frankly, Westerners on here do not benefit less in many cases than many poorer Israelis from structures of exploitation. Does anyone here think it would actually be either morally or politically non-fucked to arbitrarily torture and murder their children? Is a working class baby born in Detroit genocidal? Some people have literally lost their mind, and are nihilistic ultras larping as Marxists.
We could also take another Islamist group, the FLN in Algeria. On the one hand, they were the only feasible body capable of defeating the French colonizers, but they detracts in no way from how intrinsically reactionary they were socially or politically, as evidenced by the fact that they massacred, tortured, wiped out the Communist revolutionaries.
can we talk about this?
The Algerian Communist Part and the FLN cooperated during the Algerian War against French occupation in the National Liberation Army. This was purely tactical from both their perspectives, as Communism is inherently anti-Islamist, and Islamism is inherently anti-communist.
Once the French withdrew and Algeria had formal independence, the FLN was in power and banned the Communist Party in 1962. They were forced underground and would be continuously repressed and would never regain their former support or influence. This was continued once Boumédiène took power. They have never since regained substantial popularity and this was seriously obstructed not only by government repression but also by the rise of Islamism more generally in the Middle East and North Africa, which have presented themselves as radical alternatives based on purifying return to a mystical past and the obliteration of the distinction between religious and political institutions, diverting radical energy from communist movements, which might remind you in several respects of another political movement of European origin.
