lemm.ee

1 point

10 months ago

You said you’d listen to the podcast. I’m going to hold you to it. It’s a comedy show. And pizzagate is ridiculous. But you offered to argue their points. “they’re mean to my friends” isn’t going to cut it.

The best evidence for your claim is that link? Please read the FIRST paragraph and let’s discuss the reading level of The Emperor’s New Clothes.

I’ve read it pretty deeply now. You better start connecting some dots. There is too much secret sourcing.

I’m not even sure what “claims of debunking” you even mean. What even are the claims of pizzagate? That the emails are boring, but if you squint, you can pretend it’s a conspiracy. It’s the least interesting thing I’ve heard. What’s to engage with? There are no bodies. No victims. The crimes alleged must have victims. What court is going to convict anybody on these charges with no victims? Have the jury squint at instagram pics? Please give your argument some grounding.

I am not afraid of a lack of victims. The existence of victims would blow this wide open.

Please tell me of a historical case (aka in reality) where a pedo ring was busted with no known victims.

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Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world

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1 point

10 months ago

pizzagate is ridiculous.

Depends which particular claim you are talking about.

Hillary locking up kids in a basement … ridiculous. This strawman was invented to be debunked.
A pizza restaurant owner with an unhealthy interest in kids … not ridiculous.

I’m not even sure what “claims of debunking” you even mean.

It means the claimer is 100% sure that a particular theory is false.

Flat Earth - debunked

Political figures discuss illegal topics over email using codewords - could be true

What even are the claims of pizzagate?

Pizza owner distributes CP from his restaurant website.
The Podestas talk in code over email.
Instagram was used to joke about child abuse.

What’s to engage with? There are no bodies. No victims. The crimes alleged must have victims.

You are 100% sure there are no victims?

Child services have interviewed the guardian’s of the girl taped to a table?

It is impossible that these people were discussing abusing kids?

To debunk a theory, that is what is needed.

What court is going to convict anybody on these charges with no victims? Have the jury squint at instagram pics? Please give your argument some grounding.

OK, this is never claimed. Investigations by law enforcement to find the required level of evidence to present to a court were never conducted. Why not?

Please tell me of a historical case (aka in reality) where a pedo ring was busted with no known victims.

Any where images are traded. Victims are unknown but unfortunately exist.

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1 point

10 months ago

They interviewed a child that was taped to a table, huh?

You have made NO claims whatsoever. You asked what I thought. I said it was nothing. All you’ve said is everything that I say is wrong. I have no idea what you think pizzagate is.

So now that you FINALLY made a claim. Let’s talk about the girl taped to a table. Does this girl have a name? A picture. Please post the instagram of this poor child taped to a table. I bet the picture will send chills though all the spines of those that see it. POST THE PICTURE! Or I will. You certainly have provided me evidence of a child taped to a table. Can do you have a picture where she isn’t smiling?

Was she interviewed by the FBI? Is that your big, scary evidence? The thing that should open my eyes. Please provide evidence of this child that was taped to table. That’s a pretty BIG claim. Do you have a picture? I mean, I have one that you showed me. It had a warning above it how disturbing the picture is. Would you post so everyone can see how scary it is?

All you’ve said about pizzagate, is that I don’t know what pizzagate is. Is it that a child was taped to a table?

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Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world

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1 point

10 months ago

They interviewed a child that was taped to a table, huh?

No. Not that I’m aware of. Do you have more information?

You asked what I thought. I said it was nothing.

Are you certain it is nothing or is it probably nothing. If the former then I would like to know why.

Let’s talk about the girl taped to a table. Does this girl have a name?

Yes. The question of interest is, do child services know her name?

Please post the instagram of this poor child taped to a table.

It’s in the steemit summary linked above.

Can do you have a picture where she isn’t smiling?

So it’s not abuse if they enjoy it? Heard of normalisation?

All you’ve said about pizzagate, is that I don’t know what pizzagate is.

I don’t think I’ve said anything of the sort. You seem quite knowledgeable. However, if you are certain it has been debunked then you must be an expert.

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1 point

10 months ago

Since knock_knock is too demure to show graphic content here, I will share the photo. These are the words above the photo in the document

Warning: some of these are pretty weird/sexual, probably best not to view at work

We might as well start with this picture of a girl taped to a table, which is probably the most widely referenced one.

spoiler

THIS is the “most widely referenced” picture of all the pizzagate allegations. THIS is why it’s like pulling teeth to get a pizzagater to make ONE real claim. The emperor has no clothes. They are so proud of a mountain of nothing.

There is no one who is credibility alleged to have explicit material of this child. It is at this point where I am expected to appear to ask for this material. This could be a crime. Be careful. Look how fast this reply was locked-and-loaded.

Can do you have a picture where she isn’t smiling?

So it’s not abuse if they enjoy it? Heard of normalisation?

If you think that question is void now due to that retort, you are mistaken. Anyone reading along can see the photo now. You really should have tried to get ahead of that. I bet no one was picturing masking tape with the picture you created in words.

I have showed the only evidence provided that this child exists. Are there alleged to be other materials of this child that are objectionable? Is this a victim?

Virginia Giuffre was a victim who came forward.

Only as a middle aged woman. Kids in the Instagram photos would now barely be over 10. You can’t use their silence as evidence.

“You can’t use their silence as evidence.” What? They sound exactly like nonexistent victims. There must be a difference between real victims and nonexistent victims. Silence is clearly not a good measurement. Are there any other methods to look for them?

any pundit that “bunks” pizzagate talking-points that also said anything about Epstein

Sorry. Not a claim or a point I’m defending.

I know this isn’t a claim. It’s a point worth discussing. There are people in our society whose job is gain the trust of people by showing integrity. They are called journalists. A journalist knows that if a reader catches the whiff of dishonesty, they lose that reader permanently.

So a journalist with a long, track-able career is who is best equipped to make such sensitive accusations. This is usually how rings would get busted. So who is putting their career on the line for this? Is Mike Cernovich the point-person on these matters? These accusations are dangerous. Your dismal of that is sickening, but I’ll come back to that later.

I’m not even sure what “claims of debunking” you even mean.

It means the claimer is 100% sure that a particular theory is false

This is the worst framing of epistemology I’ve seen. You are quite literally turning every argument in a “confidence game”. Surely you see that the world can’t function like that.

But I will give you this, you finally connected the dots in a way that I see how pizzagate is real.

We’ve had too many exchanges before I finally can see what pizzagate actually is.

Pizzagate: The believe that real world damage can be caused simply by never admitting any harmless explanations regardless of plausibility.

The fucked up thing here, is that with this formulation, Pizzagate is true.

1.) The only thing that little girl’s guardians did was upload a photo of the aftermath of child’s play.

2.) Now, 4chan enters the scene. 4chan and reddit simply make up ANYTHING they want to accuse these people of. Consequence free. There is no journalist in the loop. There are no stakes. You get federal authorities to harass strangers. And you are proud of it.

3.) THEN this visit is now “evidence”. You keep pointing to police action, like it’s suspicious, but 4chan did that shit. I don’t know who you are fooling, but it isn’t me.

These three dots are what you connected. You have convinced me it’s real. It’s scary. It’s sick that people would do this.

You can claim it’s about protecting kids, but there have been no rescues or even calls for help.

Here’s from Wikipedia

On December 4, 2016, Edgar Maddison Welch, a 28-year-old man from Salisbury, North Carolina, arrived at Comet Ping Pong and fired three shots from an AR-15 style rifle that struck the restaurant’s walls, a desk, and a door.

Welch was there to liberate victims. Who did he avenge? Who is lucky that Welch was there to listen to the cries of help that 4chan told him exist?

I find this stuff dangerous, and it’s usually best discussed in a more focused group.

We are discussing 8 year old emails and Instagram posts. Not planning an insurrection.

Three bullets are what I’m calling dangerous, sicko. You know what is happening. You know the bullets were real.

You seem very proud that the feds were sent to investigate this. That seems to be a claim of victory. It’s disturbing. There was no foundation. You just hate these people. It’s unpleasant to say the least. You’re proud you can imagine such horrible things happening. You don’t even need proof. And you just want the world to hate these people like you do, and based on as flimsy shit as you accept as proof.

I’m done here. Pizzagate sucks. You can come bother me at /c/knowledgefight.

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Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world

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1 point

10 months ago

THIS is why it’s like pulling teeth to get a pizzagater to make ONE real claim.

I gave you 3 claims, and you picked your own 4th.

It is at this point where I am expected to appear to ask for this material. This could be a crime. Be careful. Look how fast this reply was locked-and-loaded.

Ah, now I see why you were so weirdly desperate for me to post that particular photo. You had a narrative needing to be fulfilled. Sorry to disappoint.

Are there alleged to be other materials of this child that are objectionable?

Yes, and they haven’t been acted upon either.

Is this a victim?

Potentially, yes. How are you imagining this kid “coming forward” to the authorities?

Silence is clearly not a good measurement. Are there any other methods to look for them?

Yep. By photos posted online by their abusers. By having child services interview their guardians.

Theses accusations are dangerous.

And should have been handled by the police. They weren’t.

There is no one who is credibility alleged to have explicit material of this child.

No-one claimed this either. Debunkers love to invent strawmen to attack.

1.) The only thing that little girl’s guardians did was upload a photo of the aftermath of child’s play.

Your favourite picture is far from the only suspicious Instagram post/comment

You get federal authorities to harass strangers.

Literally their job. And they point is they weren’t doing it.

sicko.

You are the one defending the guy with a “members only” file share on his website who makes child abuse jokes on Instagram.

based on as flimsy shit as you accept as proof.

This applies equally to debunkers who think “no basement” is proof that pizzagate is false.

I’m not convinced any part of pizzagate is real, but you (and other debunkers) are convinced it is 100% fake. That’s what is interesting.

Pizzagate debunkers are just as fervently irrational as the unquestioning gun toting believers.

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1 point

10 months ago

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1 point

10 months ago

THIS is why it’s like pulling teeth to get a pizzagater to make ONE real claim.

I gave you 3 claims, and you picked your own 4th.

Would you like me to read one of those 3 claims?

Instagram was used to joke about child abuse.

So let’s see we’re YOU are finding this instagram stuff. Hmm…

No, the. Best evidence is the steemit summary above. That made a LOT of people suspicious

Ok, we know where your BEST evidence is. Let’s figure out this instagram claim.

Here are the times YOU brought up Instagram:

At least the guardian’s of the kids in the Instagram photos should have been questioned.

We are discussing 8 year old emails and Instagram posts.

Virginia Giuffre was a victim who came forward.

Only as a middle aged woman. Kids in the Instagram photos would now barely be over 10.

There are no victims in pizzagate.

We have photos of some from Instagram.

That investigation went as far as it could before violating the rights of a private business owner

No. There was no investigation (sorry, no supporting evidence). “Private business owner” has nothing to do with suggestive Instagram posts involving children.

You talk a lot about instagram for someone who finds the FIRST instagram picture from your GOLDEN source embarrassing. Here, I’ll add context. I’ll expand the crop. And let see what this fear-mongering document says…

It’s the “most widely referenced one”. YOU are the one pointing to internet “frenzies” as evidence. An internet frenzy was whipped up about this ONE picture in particular. There are no other pictures related to this child. YOU are claiming the other photos are connected.

Adding more context makes the evidence look WORSE.

Also notice that the simple explanation isn’t good enough: “please let me know if there are more”. They want another explanation because then “see, they’re changing their story”. For some reason they want the reader to be suspicious of only ONE explanation. Reality works in a strange way for people who think like this.

Then every pizzagater ever says, “that’s why you picked THAT photo. Of course the one my opponent chooses one that makes me look silly. They won’t show you the other stuff I sent them. Please read the first paragraph at least, where it says if you don’t see EVERYTHING, you’ll be too ignorant to know the truth.”

They are always saying “look at everything. but don’t look at anything.”

The only claim I made is that I have seen no proof of illegal activity. There are plenty of times in my life where I have seen proof of illegal activity. It’s a pretty common thing to see on the news. I don’t see why I should worry about people who have weird tastes in art. I see a lot of mixing pizza, weird art, and sex in that doc, but not kids. I’m worried about one who see that photo as normalization of child abuse. (Here is where that claim of “I’m not claiming THAT photo is what i’m talking about. don’t you see how vague i’m being. look at everything” This is 30-Rock’s “Homonym Game” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZLkcFns8Ks )

Seeing a girl smiling with masking tape on her arms does NOT look like normalization [i use US spelling]

Can do you have a picture where she isn’t smiling?

So it’s not abuse if they enjoy it? Heard of normalisation?

You are either being very disingenuous here, or you find that image stirring. I do not want to accuse you of anything, but the reason I want a journalist in the loop is because every pizzagater with any sizable voice is WITHOUT FAIL either (a) trying to convince people (including themselves) that SA material of minors is more common than it is or (b) very homophobic.

The document you provided is teeming with homophobia.

I am implementing a new rule. I will not engage with pizzagate arguments with people unless they pledge: “There is a gay person in my life that I love, and they live a meaningful, fulfilling life.” That’s probably not hard. Honestly, I don’t care if you know them personally.

If you can’t do that, I’d rather deal with a more serious mind virus.

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