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-69 points

Cannidates like Biden help fascism

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68 points

Biden is the only thing standing between democracy and fascism in the US. Hate it all you want,but that is the reality at the moment.

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13 points

He can play two roles, it’s not as simple as either good or bad. Capitalist Democratic leadership that is dedicated more to controlling the party’s left wing than defeating the country’s extremist right wing has and does enable fascism. This isn’t even a remotely controversial take, historically speaking. Trump owes his first presidency to the likes of Clinton and Obama, and yes, Joe Biden, who had had a long career of neoliberalism.

That said, while Biden hasn’t been, by any means, a perfect president, he has been far better than I expected, possibly the most progressive president since LBJ. And he is standing, albeit somewhat vaguely, between Trump and the Whitehouse.

But stopping Trump isn’t going to stop the slide into fascism. It can only, at best, delay things until the next election. To do that, we need a strong progressive movement to send a true leftist coalition to take over DC, and set a national tone and direction that moves away from the fascist ledge.

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7 points

I think the irony is that Republicans are both as dangerous and fragile as possible right now. Their coalition is fracturing badly. If we win definitively in November, it will be a strong blow against them. If we’re lucky, it’ll be enough to permanently splinter them and make them unviable nationally.

That is my first and foremost goal. Render them impotent.

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6 points

I’m usually all about finding a middle ground, but in this election it is that simple. Trump brings fascism now. Biden retains democracy for at least another 4 years.

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4 points

Upvote for material analysis instead of emotions.

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3 points

But Biden has not stayed on the neo-liberal hard line globalist policies. He has recoiled from international supply chains by bringing investment to manufacturing in the US. He has relieved debt payments for college educated workers. He has invested in infrastructure for transportation of goods as well as electricity which tackles the problem of emissions as well as cost of energy. I believe these moves are a reaction to understanding that life is hard and globalism left a lot of people behind.

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6 points

How did we get here?

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1 point
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1 point

Draft Jon Stewart.

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1 point

I would vote for him in a heartbeat, but I wouldn’t bet on it happening.

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-19 points

Biden isn’t standing between anything…he’s a speed bump. We still lost our reproductive rights, Trump’s tax cuts are still in place, we are still sending money to Israel and not the Ukraine.

Biden sucks. Don’t vote for Trump…but god it’s fucking depressing that the only alternative is a guy with Alzheimer’s and a meme army for political clout.

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13 points

We lost our reproductive rights because of judges Trump installed. Biden has no power to change that. Trump’s tax cuts were passed by Congress and can only be undone by Congress, not Biden. Your criticism of Biden’s actions regarding Israel is justified, but let’s not pretend Trump wouldn’t be much worse. Yeah, Biden is old but he is more coherent and aware now than Trump was 20 years ago.

I wasn’t enthusiastic about Biden last election, but he has easily been the most effective president of my lifetime. He got us out of COVID without the economy crashing. He put hundreds of millions into mental health counselors for schools. He massively accelerated our shift to renewable energy. He has put major efforts into domestic microchip production. He put limits on insulin costs. He got a national electric vehicle charging network funded. He got funding passed for infrastructure improvements including bridges, tunnels, and broadband expansion. He has increased our defenses against cyber attacks and extended political channels for addressing them around the world. He has created more than 800,000 new jobs and gotten 6 million more people healthcare coverage. He passed legislation creating a 15% minimum tax rate on billion dollar corporations.

https://navigatorresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/October-24-Few-Have-Heard-1280x720.jpg

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4 points

The difference is one has caved to public pressure and kept many promises. The other creates negative public-cult sentiment and keeps no promises.

Yes, it’s frustrating only having these choices right now. However, it is important to point out that we still have choices. People with sentiment just like yours, with a footnote that says “Not gonna vote, because [insert reason here].” are a part of the problem, when they could become a part of the start of a solution. One years, and probably a couple election cycles long, yet still potentially a positive way forward.

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-8 points

You lost your reproductive rights because a bunch of Sanders bros decided they’d rather let Trump win than vote for Hillary.

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19 points

You’re missing a crucial part of that process I think. Milquetoast candidates can cause voter apathy, yes. It’s the apathy that helps fascism.

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-6 points

The death of democracy also helps fascism, and it’s widely agreed upon that there is no democracy without freedom of expression.

It should follow then, that if someone were to suppress freedom of expression, then they are contributing to the end of democracy, no matter what ends they’re trying to meet. That is to say, the ends don’t justify the means. If someone contributes to the end of democracy while trying to fight someone that they see as the villain of democracy, then it’s still fair to say they contributed to the end of democracy, no matter how noble you think the goal.

So, at the moment, I would say the biggest threat to democracy would be if a federal administration began working with corporations and social media to enact censorship - to destroy freedom of expression.

Regardless of who Biden’s enemy is, whether you think what these people were saying was unpalatable, or even if it’s your opinion that they’re dangerous, they didn’t break the law with their speech and therefor the government had no right to censor.

If you claim to be for democracy and freedom of expression, then any claim of defence that these should be exceptions would simply be hypocritical, and a violation of your democratic principles. This is getting more and more common, and we can’t have democracy if it’s common for people to violate their democratic principles.

I repeat: we can’t have democracy if it’s common for people to violate their democratic principles.

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10 points

I’m afraid to ask what you think a vote for Trump helps.

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-14 points

Please stop being so dramatic, you shouldn’t be afraid to talk to other people about their political opinions.

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12 points

It’s not fear, it’s that no one wants to read the same half assed logic that boils down to actively supporting efforts of conservatives to put Trump back in power. This shit strategy is getting old.

The winner of the 2024 general election for POTUS will be Donald Trump or Joe Biden. In a FPTP system any eligible vote not cast for Joe Biden is supporting Donald Trump, a member of the minority party. This is math. You are going to support one of these candidates if you’re eligible to vote. It is mathematically impossible to sit out and not have influence.

Not a single one of the commenters trying to depress Democratic votes has provided a single alternative argument to these facts. It’s not a real argument. It’s just trying to create apathy so conservatives can gain more power.

You can talk about Democratic principles all day long, voting is a strategic play. And if you were actually trying to defend Democratic principles you would take the action that results in the least harm, which is Joe Biden, not Donald Trump.

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0 points

I was being rhetorical. Please stop reading everything people say as black and white ones and zeros.

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1 point

You’re out of your depth here.

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