If 2024 was the last election ever, then your logic makes complete sense, and I get to liberals every election is the last election ever, despite us seeing Trump’s desperate and flawed attempts at seizing power. He didn’t get more intelligent in the last 4 years or learn from his mistakes.
Imagine a crazy, crazy world, where Trump wins in 2024 and there’s a 2028 election. I know this is hard for some moderate libs to fathom, but you should recognize it as a real possibility.
If it’s incredibly clear that Biden lost because he’s Genocide Joe, then the next Democratic candidate might be someone younger who is ready to end the genocide (which the U.S is perfectly capable of single-handedly doing).
I’ve met people online that absolutely refuse to even acknowledge this is a possible world. They think Genocide Joe is the absolute best, pro-Gaza leader the Democratic party could ever put forth, and that losing elections due to issues like supporting genocide could never change the rhetoric and actions of future candidates in the party.
It’s fucking mind-numbing how little thought people put into this. Like I’m happy to agree that in a world where Trump wins, the years 2024-2028 are going to be worse in about every conceivable way, but then as we get into 2028 and beyond, there are scenarios that play out better for leftists in that world (e.g we get an anti-genocide, socialist leftist instead of some moderate Republican who is a reincarnation of Biden except on some social issues). The fact that moderate libs REFUSE to acknowledge this possibility is fucking exhausting.
And I’m not saying that it’s guaranteed to be better 2028 and beyond, it’s absolutely not, nobody can make guarantees about the future, but there is undeniable potential value in having Biden lose this election when you look beyond the next 4 years.
Project 2025. Downvote me. Shit on my very existence. But read what is planned.
Look up Project 2025. There will not be a 2028 election if Trump wins 2024. One Day Dictator Donnie won’t stop at one day.
He already tried to seize the capital through force. He has failed, he was the president for 4 fucking years and couldn’t figure out how to dismantle the government. He’s incredibly incompetent, I don’t know why every liberal in the world is clutching their pearls like he’s some kind of mastermind who grew and learned how to overthrow the country.
Trump is a figurehead. The man himself is nothing. If her gets elected, the smart people behind him who actually DO learn from past mistakes will have four years to reshape the government, and last time, things moved FAST.
Not voting does not send the message you think it does. It sends the message that you’re fine with the status quo and content to sit home and let things play out. “Protest” voting in the final election within a 2 party system is the same as not voting. It’s winner take all, and nothing else matters to these people.
You’re speaking in certainties when you cannot. The genocide has been perpetuated, on and off, for 75 years. This is the most killing we’ve seen in the region in a short span of time, but we have seen figures close to this in the past 75 years.
Of course there’s a world where Trump is elected, and successfully aids Israel in the extermination of the Palestinians. But you have to admit that that world isn’t a certainty, even if Trump is elected.
There’s also a world where Biden is reelected, his campaign keeps greenlighting the genocide with periodic rhetorical criticism, and then some other fascist Republican or moderate fiscal conservative Democrat comes in in 2028 and finishes the job (the Democrats now emboldened to further ignore the genocide because it costs them nothing).
It’s easier online to speak in certainty about the future, I understand that, but please if you’re going to bother engaging please don’t do it in bad-faith and actually admit where your knowledge ends. You’re not clairvoyant.
Of course there’s a world where Trump is elected, and successfully aids Israel in the extermination of the Palestinians. But you have to admit that that world isn’t a certainty, even if Trump is elected.
You just need to read the headline to this post, not even the article, to see where this argument is a non starter.
I am a leftist and the democratic party is no friend of mine. That said:
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I have lost a portion of my bodily autonomy due to republican policies. People I know have avoided getting reproductive care due to draconian republican laws in my state, and lack of control of medical records. Electing a republican will further erode rights for 50% of the nation. Yes, I am talking about women’s reproductive health.
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Republicans are erroding the safety and rights of LGBTQ+ people, in my state and elsewhere. I cannot abide a future where they are able to do this federally.
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Republicans are directly attacking our electoral processes and our partisan supreme court refuses to engage in a timely matter. A bush/gore sort of election issue will send our nation into chaos, or direct civil war. You wish us to imagine a future in which trump wins and there is a 2028 election. I can’t imagine a future where a republican government respects democracy that would allow for a possibility for a democratic (let alone an actual left party) candidate to win. The republican party is no longer a neolib party, they are a party of fascists up for sale to the highest bidder.
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Trump will not just merely support Israel’s genocide. The middle east becomes more and more volatile each day. Remember: Trump had an Iranian general assassinated. I think it’s quite likely we will be dragged into a horrible, hellish war. No heroes, no winners, just unimaginable carnage and human suffering.
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If anyone attempts to engage me with accelerationist rhetoric, know that I will ignore you. I refuse to engage with anyone who believes that an increase in violence is somehow beneficial. You have no idea what you’re asking for, and a glorious leftist revolution is not a possible outcome here.
Removed, rule 3:
“Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (perjorative, perjorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (perjorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect!”
Politicians cater to the people who vote. If Democrats lose this November and there is an election 2028 they are going to look at the people who voted in 2024 and 2026 and try to get those people’s votes. If progressives don’t vote in the general election this year Democrats won’t waste time on them and will instead focus on conservative voters. Not voting will drive the Democratic party further to the right.
Withholding our votes doesn’t lead to better election outcomes. Voting should be a simple mechanical choice to pick the lesser evil. If people want better candidates then they need to do the work between elections. Refusing to vote and trying to lower voter turnout sets us back. Losing in 2024 will mean America becomes a fascist dictatorship. There is no value in letting the Republicans win.
I didn’t say withhold your vote, go vote for Jill Stein.
It’s sad that you have to resort to a strawman to make a coherent argument against me. This is the only response to me that’s coherent, I just wish it was a coherent point against an actual position of mine, instead of a made-up position you fabricated.
If 8% of the vote goes to someone who has been openly anti-Israel and pro-Palestine, while crowds are chanting against genocide Joe, it’ll send a pretty clear signal to Democrats what they need to do.
Hoping you’ll apologize for the unnecessary strawman honestly, it’s needlessly exhausting to have to deal with all the inane shit everyone is throwing my way, only to then have to deal with a coherent comment put together against a point I didn’t even make.
I didn’t say withhold your vote, go vote for Jill Stein.
Jill Stein has no chance of winning. She is a spoiler for Joe Biden and so voting for her is, for the purpose of counting the difference in votes between Trump and Biden, the same as not voting. We have a two party, first-past-the-post, political system where Republicans benefit from low voter turnout. So Trump benefits from anyone not voting for Biden.
It’s sad that you have to resort to a strawman to make a coherent argument against me.
A strawman is an argument that argues against a different, usually weaker, position rather than the other argument’s actual position. However if the two positions are in fact equivalent, such as not voting and voting for third party spoiler candidates, then the argument is not a strawman.
If 8% of the vote goes to someone who has been openly anti-Israel and pro-Palestine, while crowds are chanting against genocide Joe, it’ll send a pretty clear signal to Democrats what they need to do.
100,000 people already voted uncommitted in the Michigan Democrat primary, with more in other Democrat primaries undoubtedly on the way. The point has been made and no new information will be gained from any third party voter turnout in November. There is no reason why the Democrats cannot change course on Palestine and Israel right now. This would be much more beneficial, to the Palestinians, than waiting through a Trump presidency to finally get help to them in 2028.
Hoping you’ll apologize for the unnecessary strawman honestly,
My argument is that letting Trump win is not only unacceptable, but is counterproductive to the progressive causes your argument claims will benefit from such a scenario. The Democrats will respond to low voter turnout from progressives by shifting to the right to capture more conservative voters. This is a refutation of you argument’s central point.
it’s needlessly exhausting to have to deal with all the inane shit everyone is throwing my way
There were nothing but solid replies to your comment. I implore you to reconsider.
