President Vladimir Putin said Russia had a “sufficient stockpile” of cluster bombs and reserved the right to use them if such munitions, the use of which he said he regarded as a crime, were deployed against Russian forces in Ukraine.
Ukraine said on Thursday it had received cluster bombs from the United States
Both sides have been using them from the beginning. This is just a combination of Russian amplification and the actual news cycle.
incorrect, the Ukrainians have not been using them but they will be using them pretty soon.
they already do https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/151ae0i/ukrainian_unit_immaterium_showing_the_employment/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1504ulh/cluster_munitions_used_against_russian_trench_line/
and also i remember an isolated incident of using cluster shells hitting russian trenches, because it was only few this could have been captured ammunition. there was only 20 submunitions each or so, so this had to be something smaller (like 122mm howitzer or maybe 120mm mortar). this one is 7 months old already https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/znp5hy/condensed_video_of_airburst_artillery_attacks_on/ (longer version https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/zn7io8/russian_troops_absorbing_artillery_fire_ukraine/) however, this doesn’t have to be so, as Ukrainians manufacture their own cluster shells and some could be sourced from euro countries, like Poland or Bulgaria, but more importantly Turkey
i found another example https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/13uw2kp/russian_position_targeted_with_cluster_munitions/ this had to happen in spring judging by lack of leaves on trees
Putin: “Russia will use cluster bombs if we have to, we already have, since the beginning, but we will still use them if we have to.”
They already used them.
I was gonna say. I distinctly remember that the only reason cluster munitions were sent was in response to Russian ones targeting civilians.
They were using cluster munition from very beginning. There were videos of cluster munition being used in cities with civilians. In the infamous Kramatorsk railway station attack russia used cluster munition for example. Which is what makes putin’s statement quite misleading. It’s effectively lying by omission.
They’re already using them.
@little_cow He already has???
From what I understand Putin is using a stricter definition of “cluster bombs” as a muntition containing a bomblets submunition.
I have seen of Russian videos munitions are hypersonic missiles, thermobaric bombs (incendiary submunition), and timed remote mine submunitions (a timed self-destruct feature or one that turns it inert after a while) but none utilizing a pressure fuse like the butterfly mines that were used by Ukraine.
They are terrible weapons regardless of definition
Even if it was just pure anti-personnel clusters, we have evidence of that far back in 2022. So even then he would be lying. For example there is photo graphic evidence from the bomb disposal teams in Ukraine of 9N24 submunition. Which is soviet pure anti-personnel submunition for their cluster dispensers. It has no other purpose. It isn’t even dual use dumb HEAT/FRAG submunition. 9N24 is pure fragmentations anti-personnel round with simple contact fuse. Hit’s ground, the explosive core along the main cylinder shaped munition explodes and well the whole outside wall is lined with steel balls to be thrown in 360 all around.
Similarly 9N210 HE/FRAG munitions have been documented. Again useless against armored targets, only use case is against soft targets like humans. As have 9N235 again HE/FRAG sub munitions been documented.
All same purpose, just little different sized and exact design for different dispensers. Some those might theoretically have fuses with self destruct. However the whole point about cluster munitions being bad is fuses fail, including supposed self-destruct fuses. There is no such thing as 100% reliable fuse, even self destruct one.
My source: Armaments Research Services articles on the subject. I’m sure there is bunch of other more official sources also, including listing more individual incidents and attacks. ARES are just convenient source here, since they are interested the weapons technologies and types used in conflicts, so they have bunch of articles of “This specific type of submunitions has now been seen in Ukraine”.