A standoff between the site and some of its most devoted users exposes an existential dilemma.
“These people who are mad, they’re mad because they used to get something for free, and now it’s going to be not free. And that free comes at the expense of our other users and our business. That’s what this is about. It can’t be free.”
Funny, seems like he has been getting all of it from content to moderation for free, and now he is the one angry it isn’t free any more…huh.
If they had charged API fees such that 3rd party apps would have had to charge a monthly fee to users…I would have probably just paid. And I know I’m not the only one.
But they priced it intentionally to kill 3rd party apps, because they wanted to channel access through their garbage app with its “promoted” ads all over the place.
It’s not about “free vs. not free” it’s about intentionally killing off the applications that made reddit likeable as a platform.
That’s why this whole debacle is so mystifying to me. If they would have tried to monetize the 3rd party space by way of charging a reasonable API price to the devs, it’s not hard to imagine that most serious Reddit users wouldn’t have any qualms with parting with a few bucks here and there to keep the status quo. I can’t imagine that Reddit is able to create a situation where they earn more from their advertising platform per user than having users simply pay to maintain the existing experience.
The only theory I’ve heard that makes a lick of sense is that if Reddit fundamentally changes the site experience to pursue other monetization options (Hello Reddit NFTs), then 3rd party apps would’ve been able to just ignore implementing those features entirely.
My speculation is that they want to charge LLMs like ChatGPT, especially for training. Those devs basically want to access every conversation on Reddit.
My “make it make sense” theory is–this is entirely about the IPO and we need to look at the biggest issue from last years social media sale.
Musk sued Twitter for obfuscating/failing to disclose how much of it’s activity was bots during negotiations. It was a legit point of contention. These social media services are incentivized to turn a blind eye to the problem. (eg The “impressions” number that Facebook and Google sell advertisers is all malarkey) You’ll notice that now that Musk owns twitter he doesn’t say a word about bots other than occationally patting himself on the back for shutting bots down (ok yeah sure elon).
I think reddit is in a similar predicament where they really want to inflate their user stats with bot activity for the IPO, but they can’t because the app stores provide solid stats on users and user activity and they don’t control that flow of information, the 3rd party developers do.
If they think 15%-30% of the sites activity is repost bots, they really don’t care about alienating the 5% of users using third-party apps.
The AI learning angle is all smoke-and-mirrors.
And in reddit’s case, rather than someone like Elon buying/fact checking the terms of purchase, for IPOs you have to get your disclosure documents past the SEC. Smart people, but hardly experts at how social media companies run.
I think there’s a little more to it. If they’re trying to go the Meta way where dwell times and other such evil metrics are used, they need to have their own app for that level of info. It might be a requirement for their IPO or requested by their advertisers.
Yup, if two months ago they said reddit premium members won’t experience any changes, and started pushing ads to 3rd party clients and restricted NSFW posts on 3rd party clients without premium I bet there would have be considerably less push back. I know I probably would have ponied up to $60/year,but instead I have abandoned the site without any intention to return.
their app is so ass and the response is to kill all other apps rather than improve their own
I mean, they could have just stolen the good designs from other apps and made theirs more user friendly, but fuck that, better to scorched earth the motherfucker
honestly, I was going to stick around reddit but after seeing all the bullshit he’s spewing in these tech interviews I don’t want to give him a penny of my time/data
I had thought those where your words at first, you can quote like this;
These people who are mad, they’re mad because they used to get something for free, and now it’s going to be not free. And that free comes at the expense of our other users and our business. That’s what this is about. It can’t be free.
I’m struggling to show you what symbol it is without it turning into a quote, so here’s a picture of the greater than symbol;
To display formatting characters without having them actually affect formatting, put a backslash in front of them. Like this:
\>
That produces this:
>
Oh, nice! So I set the quote in between the greater then and less then symbols and it will show the quote? That is pretty cool. Thank you.
Not quite I think. I believe this uses markdown, which just uses the > at the beginning of a line
> This is a quote
should become
This is a quote
And if you need more lines, you just keep symboling
> 1
> 2
> 3
1
2
3
Seems like a case for r/selfawarewolves … If that’s a thing that still exists.
It’s the same as when he started talking about “landed peasantry”, the projection is strong, aware or not.
There is, and I commented on a thread they had. But I’m too much of a noob to get back to it and get you a link.
Nailed it.
CEOs. Literally the worst. Toss up between “politicians” or CEOs. They take what they don’t produce and exploit it for their masters.
Funny coming from a techbro that thought to farm out getting site content from that userbase he’s now wanting money from.
Like I get it if he’s wanting to not go into debt, but at the same time he’s shot any chance at user good will and assistance in the face with a cluster fat man.
The money quote IMO is at the end:
Reddit, like any commercial platform, is only a community until its owners need it to be something else.
That’s a good reason to be mindful of what we’re building here on Kbin, Lemmy, and other federated networks. We’re not just trying to build a Reddit methadone, to help us down from our high after quitting cold-turkey. We are, I hope, aiming to build (or rebuild) a community – one not dependent on the monetizing whims of a private owner.
The author is right: Spez lost site of the community aspect. Here’s an opportunity to show them that the idea still means something to a lot of us.
If for some reason kbin becomes bad, you just move to another instance (that defederated kbin) and you still get the prior cached posts and comments, just new stuff won’t be shitty. I guess you’d have to leave your kbin profile behind.
One thing that the Reddit guy says that is true, it takes money to run sites. People joining the Fediverse need to realize this and should consider contributing money to their instance if they can.
That’s honestly one thing that I think will be a problem for many Fediverse services and instances. People nowadays are extremely loath to pay for any sort of online content or service. That’s why ads proliferated; nobody wants to pay for eg. news, video streaming or a social network site, and the people producing the content and services need to eat too.
Many have been so conditioned into getting everything for free that they get outright angry when someone suggests that maybe news and social networks are so shit nowadays is exactly because they have to bait people into clicking on stuff so they’ll see more ads, and that maybe they should be paying for the content they consume instead of assuming they’re entitled to it by virtue of being online
No users, no Reddit. It’s as simple as that. Why the paint huffer thinks he can take content from his users for free, then sell it back to them, is mystifying. No, no, dickhead. You’re acting like you’re the most important component of Reddit when you are, in fact, the most expendable.
I come from the era of the BBS. The PHP Forum. SlashDot, and Digg. I come from online games ranging from EverQuest, to Multiverse Crisis MUSH, to Moments in Tyme, to Warframe, and More. I have walked messenger clients from the times of AiM, IRC and Yahoo, to Skype, Steam, and Discord.
In my thirty years of being online, this is not the first petty tyrant claiming that upset users are the problem rather than taking a long hard look in the mirror. This will not be the last.
The best we can do is grab popcorn and watch as his platform dies. He won’t admit to making any mistakes. Especially with money involved because he’s under the deluded belief that showing any weakness invites a price drop from investors. Yet this behavior? It REEKS of weakness and insecurity.
Migrate and Move On. the rest is just playing u/spez’s game.
I’d expect that Matrix and Revolt will eat a small portion of the discord userbase. Twitter and Reddit are clearly shattering into pieces.
landed gentry
democratic
Bro, that’s just a little too much bullshit coming from your mouth for me.