In a capitalist world, it can be hard to remember this. But despite what you are pressured to think, your value as a person does not come through what material value you create for others.
I find the current tone of the comments in this thread rather upsetting. It feels like a lot of people are arguing to refute OPs position that a person’s value is not determined from their material productivity. If this is you, I think you might be in the wrong community. I don’t think this is a point of debate in the simple living community.
To say that a person’s value is derived from their productivity is to say that you do not value the person, but what they produce. This can be interpreted as viewing a person as a Means to any End, rather than an End in themselves. For me, viewing people as Ends in themselves is a foundational pathos of Simple Living. The idea of valuing people, relationships, love, time, above wealth, material, prestige, speed is what simple living is all about!
Well wishes to you all 😊
I would say the pushback is not about how it should be, but about how it works in reality. Paragons still struggle with bills or working/living conditions while grifters live comfortably. The disconnect makes the “you matter” stuff look like nothing more than a platitude. Maybe that take is cynical, but it’s not without roots.
Particularly worse with all the systems in USA, I’d say it’s much less likely to make individuals feel valued and thus less conducive to simple living. I say that as someone all-but-stranded (semi-rural) in a “this is fine” simple life (I’ve thought about living in an intentional community, but I don’t ever see that working out for me).
Thank you for your well put reply, and I agree, your position is not without roots. Though, I’d like to humbly suggest that your points may actually support the notion that runaway modern capitalism does not effectively determine a person’s value. I would argue that the fact that a paragon can struggle economically and a grifter can swindle their way to high fortune shows that capitalism does not equitably reward good and punish evil. Therefore, a person should not allow their financial status (the value capitalism has assigned them) to be the measure of their personal value.
On the point of the system’s undervaluing of people and their work (which is absolutely true) making it harder to lead a simple life, I’m not sure the two are connected. Being compensated well makes things much much easier, but that doesn’t make things simpler. A person can live a very modest life that is simple, tranquil, and full of joy. Someone can also be extremely wealthy and ambitious with a fast paced life full of complexity, stress, and anguish.
I’m very sorry that youre feelings stuck. It’s frustrating and it absolutely can feel patronizingly when you’re struggling for better and someone tries to placate you with platitudes. But, the gift of simple living is that by appreciating the little things, removing stressful complexly, and slowing down, anyone in any situation can have more peace and happiness in their situation, even if it doesn’t get better.
Warmest wishes my friend and be well.
I’d like to humbly suggest that your points may actually support the notion that runaway modern capitalism does not effectively determine a person’s value
Therefore, a person should not allow their financial status (the value capitalism has assigned them) to be the measure of their personal value
My point is that how your society treats someone is a reflection of how it values them, that is more important than self-esteem. You can say how people should be treated, but it doesn’t mean much to say that if they aren’t.
Pushing the cynical bit aside, for clarity I would say it’d be better to say potential value here, as yeah pretty much everybody would have more value if they weren’t suffering most of their life.
Yet (maybe not so) oddly that doesn’t matter to the same society with an economy and political system based on speculation.
undervaluing work (which is absolutely true) making it harder to lead a simple life
I’m not sure the two are connected
The systems in USA was an important bit of my comment. The healthcare system and car-centric design (zoning+spread out) complicates life (and work) on top of being a monetary drain. Add in low pay and expensive housing/food and it’s even worse. And most people don’t have great diet/health etc.
You can ignore those, but that gives you more of a simple existence than a simple life, particularly as you are giving things up/living within limits. Staying home due to poor travel and high cost limits socialization and enjoyment options.
But people who cannot do those things are not “valuelesss.” That is ableist and still informed by the Protestant Work Ethic. People can still have value even if they can’t do labour.
People do work in non-capitalist situations for the betterment of the community. The value is not measured by metrics, but by how fulfilled people feel by it.
They probably don’t care, they just said the quiet part out loud - society, and many in it, simply see us (disabled people) as having no value whatsoever and as being nothing but a burden.
A perfect example of why fighting the class war without also fighting all the other oppression capitalism relies on (ableism, racism, sexism, and so on) will never gain equity and equality for all, but only for those already more privileged than others.
That’s a bit of an uncharitable assessment considering they’re just stating how things operate now.
We don’t have post-scarcity yet (even if we could somewhat) and neither do we have survival lifestyle where strength-in-numbers means practically anyone will boost survival of the group as has happened in the past (see healed fractures in ancient bones). Plus land ownership/availability and resources are much different, money and process tangle everything now.
Particularly in USA, it also doesn’t help that preventable/treatable health issues are such a big problem (also public transportation, zoning, wages/benefits, law, lack of socialization, and 100 other issues combining together), leaving people behind to suffer.
Just FYI, I agree that materialist value is not the only value to look for in other people, but “The value is not measured by metrics” doesn’t make sense because metrics are by definition measured.
While you’re correct, we still need to reevaluate what counts as “value” and how value is quantified. Art is valuable, humor is valuable, empathy is valuable; but these things are generally compensated at a low rate in free market capitalism.
The “capitalism” part of that is the problem. What puts the most resources into the control of the ownership class gets compensated the most (and even then, horribly unfairly). Free markets are fine. Concentration of resources to the ownership class is not.
What does an infant contribute? How about a paralyzed person? How about a developmentally disabled individual? What is the value of an elderly, dementia-stricken grandparent?
So what is your solution for the paralyzed, the crippled, and the terminally ill? Are they a drain on the system, better off put down like animals?
I wish I could believe that, but everyone in my life blatantly shows that they only appreciate me when I can do things for them and just tolerate me between useful events.
Eh, they’re not bad. They’re just normal, self centered people. They’re the default. It’s human nature. The people who do actually care are the ones who decide to be better than average.
A lot of sociopaths propagate the lie that everyone in the world is as selfish and corrupt as they are. These people are the ones who are controlling capital. It’s their incapability to be normal like everyone else that’s responsible for their sociopathy and also their projection of values.
Don’t be fooled, you’re sane if you reject the capitalistic ideals. It’s insane to make somebody else disproportionately wealthy with your hardwork and ideas.
The people who decide whether I eat or starve disagree wholeheartedly with you.
