2 points

Several years ago, I considered an EV, got sticker shock, and slowly backed away. I wound up with an ebike instead. What happened with the latter is it turned out I really loved that thing and rode it far more frequently than I would have imagined. It’s not a total car replacement, to be fair, but it handles most trips.

Today, EVs are still expensive, though there are more options and a bit more competition on price. But to make them worthwhile, you need to drive a lot so that you get back some of that initial investment in savings with charging vs fuelling. This means I am not really the demographic for EVs anymore, since I don’t drive enough. It’s so weird… I guess I’ll just keep that 2006 ICE around until it dies, which might be awhile yet considering how slowly the mileage is ticking up.

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1 point

EVERY INCREMENTAL IMPROVEMENT IS BAD BECAUSE IT’S INCREMENTAL.

ONLY INSTANTLY PERFECT AND COMPLETE SOLUTIONS PLZ KTHX

🥴🥴🥴

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13 points

I really think we’re too far in the hole here.

I think fear grips people at every angle and none of us are brave enough to accept bold action for positive change in our society. It seems like most people are just retracting instead.

I vaguely remember that “Ye” (formerly Kanye West) once said something like he formed a think tank to build a city but the thing stopping his team was that “Ye” didn’t understand any of the concepts and he ran it into the ground.

I want public transportation, I think everyone wants it at this point but no no one understands why we need it. They all just want to escape.

(This message was brought to you by the new 2024 Ford Escape: just hit the road and escape to paradise)

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3 points

I like my car. Nothing will change that opinion, because nothing beats having a personal vehicle.

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-10 points

There’s no comparison to the personal freedom of having a car versus being dependent on others to ferry you around. That’s why America will always be built around our great car infrastructure. We will never give up our freedom to roam our huge awesome land.

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4 points

I would argue that a fast, frequent and comprehensive public transport system gives you more personal freedom. Being able to easily get around without having to worry about piloting a heavy vehicle, without the burden of maintenance, and being flexible once out due to not needing to worry about where you’re storing your car. Plug the gaps with (electric and/or cargo) bikes for shorter trips and car share for longer ones and you have a much better, more equitable transport system.

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9 points
*

Nothing like freedom like actively removing people from having multiple choices of transit by making illegal to build anything that isn’t dependent on cars.

Nothing like freedom like being forced to spend thousands on a several ton machine to do any task outside your home.

Nothing like freedon like being forced to pay predatory insurance to private corporations in order to be legally allowed to drive your vehicle.

Nothing like freedom like being dependent on oil companies that actively lobby against you in order to drive the vehicle that you are forced to own.

Nothing like freedom like having infustructure that denies poor people and disabled people from participating in society.

Nothing like freedom like having no independence if you are too old, too young, too intoxicated, or too disabled to drive.

Nothing like freedom like being forced to have a license issued by your government in order to be independent.

Nothing like freedom like being forced to use a vehicle that spies on you and collects information such as your sexual activity, immigration status, ‘private’ conversations, location, and much more.

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10 points

Still lots of tire noise at high speeds.

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-6 points

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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53 points
*

Disagree on inefficient.

Internal combustion engines in standard small size convert 19.65-22.1% of their energy from thermal to kinetic.

The ratio of electron throughput from battery to electric motor can be as LOW as 88% but hovers between 92-98% efficiency.

Even if you had a fuel cell in the back, running electric motors quintuples (5×) the standard energy efficiency owing to the principle of energy quality type preservation in conversion (High to High vs Low to High):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_transformation

So 1 electric car = 4 less carbon liquid fuelled cars worth of pollution.

What you’re actually looking for is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

Jevon’s Paradox states that improved efficiency of something will only increase its use, and in this case, electric cars will in fact, correlate to car use, and increased mineral demands.

This is a problem you cannot solve endemic to humanity.

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4 points

When is it efficient to carry several tons of steel with you to pick up eggs and milk?

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7 points

I think you missed the meaning of inefficency on this matter…

While it is undeniable that electric cars have a better supply-to-engine energy efficency than combustion cars, you can understand that they are equiparated in the meme as “equally bad” if you think outside of the box labelled “rubber wheels on high friction asphalt transporting usually a single individual”.

Compare that with a tram or a train, transporting multiple passengers with the same electric engine but also steel-on-steel friction on the wheels and the difference between an ICE and EV vehicle becomes a mere approximation error; god I can do the math for you if you want, but I bet even a disel bus with a lot of passengers has a better efficency/passenger ratio than an EV.

So 1 electric car = 4 less carbon liquid fuelled cars worth of pollution.

Also I think this is a bit misleading: if I buy an EV this won’t magically destroy 4 (where is this number from?) already existing carbon liquid cars, it merely means you avoided adding 1 other ICE car to the total.

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1 point

box labelled “rubber wheels on high friction asphalt transporting usually a single individual”.

so, a box I keep my bike in? :D

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1 point
*

I mean, Jevon’s Paradox works because the increased efficiency leads to decreased costs. It’s unclear if that’s going to be the case for electric cars because the hardware needed to get to that high efficiency is so expensive, and mostly made cost-effective by government assistance (I.e. eletric cars here in the UK do not pay road tax).

I’m also not sure if lowered costs would massively change the number of drivers (at least in the developed world) in the EU there’s one car for every two people. We’re not going to see that become 5 cars for every two people just because the efficiency increases, demand is too inelastic.

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15 points

I think the point is that compared to public transport when transporting a large number of people, they are inefficient.

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1 point

The “when transporting a large number of people” is quite a caveat. Sure ok high saturation of public transport / walkable cities is probably achievable with high population density, but in rural / regional areas it’s just not possible.

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11 points

A reasonable comment in this community? Get out!

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Fuck Cars

!fuck_cars@lemmy.ml

Create post

This community exists as a sister community/copycat community to the r/fuckcars subreddit.

This community exists for the following reasons:

  • to raise awareness around the dangers, inefficiencies and injustice that can come from car dependence.
  • to allow a place to discuss and promote more healthy transport methods and ways of living.

You can find the Matrix chat room for this community here.

Rules

  1. Be nice to each other. Being aggressive or inflammatory towards other users will get you banned. Name calling or obvious trolling falls under that. Hate cars, hate the system, but not people. While some drivers definitely deserve some hate, most of them didn’t choose car-centric life out of free will.

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Please report posts and comments that violate our rules.

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