did your post pop up for me because of algorithms? I was just researching MGTOW because am a WGTOW but Lemmy doesn’t have a community for us yet.
I think the problem comes back to the other post about it kind of inspiring incel movements. Men doing peaceful MGTOW aren’t going to tell you they’re doing it because they have developed beyond the need to do so. What you have left is the mess we have right now. Better social education would be nice but add that to the list of things that divide the population.
Would you care to elaborate?
I think that the idea of men looking for woman in the modern world for relationships has made so many men waste time looking for women.
In my eyes, men in the modern world would have to met a crazy high expectations by woman, in order for them to have a relationship with them.
MGTOW would liberate men to live their lives free of the expectations of woman and they can focus on improving themselves or having fun generally.
Also the other thing that I think that MGTOW had gotten right is the fact that by making a lot of men abstain from relationships with women, the society would have to change in order to return to healthy relationships.
Just a quick note here: by peaceful MGTOW I mean that group of men that decided to go in their own way to either have their freedom or to improve society in forming relationships, I am for sure don’t support the movements which supports woman hate or discrimination.
Also a second note here: most of what I read about MGTOW comes from the reddit community before the ban, right now from what I can see most websites and online forums about this topic is nowhere to be found as far as I can search.
In my eyes, men in the modern world would have to met a crazy high expectations by woman, in order for them to have a relationship with them.
Women are just people too. While there are certain high maintenance women (just like there are high maintenance men), there are lots of women that want the same things out of a relationship as many men:
- mutual respect
- a supportive partner in life
- be emotionally available
- shared life goals (want kids/don’t want kids, similar religious or political beliefs)
- mutual effort into maintaining the relationship
- have some traits (not just looks) that are attractive. Examples like humor, wit, depth of thought, compassion, empathy, selflessness. This is usually wrapped up in a single word “Personality”. Be someone worth being with.
However there’s another set of requirements that are usually a baseline requirement to most women:
- a partner who is capable of taking care of themself without the help of others
- you have your own income that covers all of your expenses
- you can put a roof over your head
- you can feed yourself (not just order takeout, but prepare a basic moderately healthy meal)
- pay your bills on time
- perform basic hygiene on your body
- be able to wash you own laundry
- pick up after yourself
What is outside of these lists that you’re qualifying as “crazy high expectations”?
MGTOW would liberate men to live their lives free of the expectations of woman and they can focus on improving themselves or having fun generally.
What exceptions of women are you referring to that prevent men from improving themselves?
Also the other thing that I think that MGTOW had gotten right is the fact that by making a lot of men abstain from relationships with women, the society would have to change in order to return to healthy relationships.
What are the “unhealthy relationships” you’re claiming exist today that you believe a widespread men’s abstinence would change?
Just a quick note here: by peaceful MGTOW I mean that group of men that decided to go in their own way to either have their freedom or to improve society in forming relationships, I am for sure don’t support the movements which supports woman hate or discrimination.
“improve society in forming relationships” is really creepy language. Assuming those relationships include with women, it sounds like you want to dictate the terms of the relationships irrespective of what women would want. To prevent myself from making a bad assumption, feel free to describe what you mean here in practical terms.
As a semi-but-not-actually-contrarian addition to what you have written here:
I am a guy. And I have, unfortunately, had many relationships with women that failed on something like half to all of those bullet points, these relationships did not work out.
Obviously this does not mean that all women are somehow hypocrites.
And obviously I was not perfect either, tends to be pretty uncommon at least for me personally to find someone who can withstand my often ‘too blunt to the point of sounding like I am trying to be cruel when Im not actually’ style comments that come from my autism.
It means that my autistic ass is a romantic fool who falls in love with irresponsible people for the charms they do have, and I do not see the warning signs until its too late.
There exist tons of women who meet all or most of those bullet points, obviously.
In conclusion: Your bullet points there are not even specific to women, by sex, or by gender.
They are simply basic attributes that, when enough are not present in any committed relationship between any two people, very very often lead to failure.
One could even say that, in this regard, men are victims of a patriarchal society that strongly reinforces the idea that a man should overlook such failures because it is their /job/ to provide, and that its possible for women who claim to be feminists to actually not be and just be using that as a shield.
But again, and obviously, many people are capable of being massive hypocrites in many regards.
Just because I am a romantic sap and have personally had bad luck doesnt mean /all women are hypocritical liars and bad!/.
That is not evidenced. Its just my personal experience of not seeing red flags until they are too late.
And that can happen to anyone, regardless of born sex, gender preferences, sexual preferences, etc.
As I see it, there is not really any need for men to go their own way.
What there does seem to be a need for is something like emphasis in some part of society on the gender and sex neutral elements of a personality and life that constitute being ready for a healthy committed relationship, vs the red flags that often indicate instability and duplicity.
And I mean real education, not the millions of insane TikToks vastly and dangerously misrepresenting these things.
Wtf is mgtow?
Magic the Gathering: Total Online Warfare.
…
No. I am kidding.
Its ‘Men Going Their Own Way’ a movement which ostensibly supports Mens Rights, but in actualiy is generally populated by mysoginistic views that, originally, over a decade ago, were rather tame compared to what the movement has evolves into now.
The original idea, where the name comes from is basically that women are so easily able to screw over men in various ways that these men who founded it, basically all after having been accused of rape, domestic abuse or lost everything in a divorce, was that these guys were just gonna avoid women from now on, go their own way.
Time went on and their rhetoric escalated and it became evident that many of these original guys were real pieces of shit and were actually guilty of all the above things they said they’d been falsely accused of.
It kind of provided some of the kindling that led to the explosion of incels and the general absurdly misogynistic views that many video gamers and right ring younger commentators are known for now.
At this point the only position theyve ever espoused with any kind of seeming legitimacy to me at least is that there does /seem/ to be a substantial imbalance in custody cases in in divorces having the kids handed over to women instead of men.
But I am far from an expert on this, and its entirely possible my views there are based on basically 15 year old data and knowledge of relevant laws and cases, so…
???
All that being said, OP is apparently referencing ‘peaceful MGTOW’ which I assume to be a splinter group of some kind? No clue.
It appears that it is/was an anti-feminist movement.
Wikipedia is the worst source of information my friend.
If you read the article, you would see that they even classify men rights movements as anti-feminist.
Wikipedia is the worst source of information my friend.
Huh? Where did you see this? Every study I’ve seen, granted only a couple over the years, has lauded the accuracy of Wikipedia.
