I feel like often people ask me “Oh yea? Name some examples.” and the burden is on me to prove something by providing representative examples. But often it’s so overwhelming how many examples there are for something that I feel obligated then to either list everything, or try extra hard to find good examples, and even then I feel like I could be misrepresenting the case by not providing enough examples. Basically I feel like I would have to give many, many examples, or none at all, otherwise anything in the middle could be non-representative of the true trend.

Ironically, now you will want me to give examples of situations that I’m talking about. But for this I will provide 2 examples and rest on good faith that you will believe me (given the context of this post) that this happens much more often than I care to provide examples for.

So one example is when you are attempting to prove to someone that a certain thing is scientifically proven or is agreed upon as scientific consensus. You can look to the generally agreed hierarchy of evidence and provide what it considers to be high-quality evidence, such as meta analyses and systematic reviews, but even then there can be disagreement between specific reports, and there can be outliers that disagree with the overall most common trends or findings. So the only way to really prove something is to provide many, many different instances of scientific evidence to the point where the other person would be unable to find the same level or amount of evidence to the contrary by virtue of the fact that it doesn’t exist to the same overwhelming degree, essentially proving the scientific fact. But again, this takes either an enormous amount of high quality evidence from various different sources, or nothing at all and simply an assertion that something is in fact scientifically proven or agreed upon as scientific consensus, because anything else in the middle could misrepresent the case and make it seem less substantiated than it actually is. It’s either “all or nothing”.

And now I’ll provide a specific anecdote about someone who argued that there are no decent stories with a female main protagonist. I am so sure and believe it to be so obvious that there is an extensive history of great female main protagonists and female-driven stories, in all forms of storytelling, that I found this an overwhelming task to attempt to prove when the person asked for specific examples. How can I make the case of the wealth of good stories with female main characters without providing an exhaustive (or highly numerous) list? Even if I pick a few great examples, the person can always make the objection that “Those are an exception, and they don’t represent the overall trend.” and I risk misrepresenting that trend if the examples chosen aren’t the best ones available, too. How can you possibly prove something like that without a very long and well-thought out and extensively researched list? Again, it seems like it’s either attempt such a daunting task, or don’t engage with the request for examples at all and just assert the claim that there are many examples, without specifying any to avoid the risk of taking on the burden of proving it and possibly misrepresenting the trend.

I hope this made any sense at all.

4 points

“Well, since you are over 20 years old and are still unaware of any examples, you obviously cannot comprehend the examples that most of the adult society already knows. I’ll let you know when I find a toddler’s coloring book about this.”

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9 points

When it comes to arguments about science most people don’t understand how science works. Stop thinking you have to conduct a PhD defense for shitty trolls. In your other example you won the argument and fell for a shifting of goalposts.

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29 points

Most of the time, these people are not arguing in good faith. It’s called sealioning.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

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3 points

Yep i think too much people pulled this on me .

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10 points

It says a lot that I’ve been following politics for years, and I’m only having to learn terms like this and ‘Gish Gallop’ now.

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1 point

Reverse Cargo Cult will blow your mind.

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1 point

What would be your examples? I kind of get the idea, but I am not quite sure

Thanks

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6 points

You can lead someone to knowledge but you can’t make em think.

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1 point

Can you hit them with the book?

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8 points

I’ll join the chorus.

If something is scientifically proven, just tell them to read the books.

If someone says there are no strong female protagonists, just name three and walk away.

Don’t engage with negative people

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3 points

Naming three is the issue

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4 points

Alien, Aliens, Alien Resurrection!

I’m also a fan of 1960s comic strip/pulp novel heroine Modesty Blaise, a teenage refugee turned crime boss turned spy.

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1 point

Games: Tomb raider, Life is strange, Control

Movies: Taking lives, Bone collector, Silence of the lambs

Movies (just because the first three that I thought were all the same genre): Carrie, Alien, Arrival

Movie franchises: Hunger games, Twilight, Star wars episode 7-9

Tv shows: Law and order SVU, Bones, Sabrina

Books: Monstrous Regiment, Alice in wonderland, The handmaid’s tale

Comics: Coraline, Wonder woman, Supergirl

These are just the first 3 of every category I thought of.

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0 points

The point is that you shouldn’t have to put in the effort to name anything at all. They’re trolling you. They know female protagonists exist. They’re just trolling.

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