Ukraine on Wednesday lowered the military conscription age from 27 to 25 in an effort to replenish its depleted ranks after more than two years of war following Russia’s full-scale invasion.
The new mobilization law came into force a day after Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy signed it. Ukraine’s parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, passed it last year.
It was not immediately clear why Zelenskyy took so long to sign the measure into law. He didn’t make any public comment about it, and officials did not say how many new soldiers the country expected to gain or for which units.
Conscription has been a sensitive matter in Ukraine for many months amid a growing shortage of infantry on top of a severe ammunition shortfall that has handed Russia the battlefield initiative. Russia’s own problems with manpower and planning have so far prevented it from taking full advantage of its edge.
What happened to ‘war over in 2 weeks?’ The worlds largest military and all of Europe providing weapons and its gone nowhere, except into the pockets of war hawks. At this point it should be considered a long con
It is absolutely a long con.
I feel bad for the Ukrainian cannon fodder that actually believed they had a chance.
Their purpose was to weaken Russia and strengthen profits for the Western MIC.
The quick war narrative was originally coined by Russian media, though. Not Ukrainian one, and neither of the governments said that.
Interesring that it’s already so high, don’t most countries have conscription at 18?
Few countries have demographics so fucked up as Ukraine. It’s the same “WWII generation can’t have kids on account of being dead” and “everyone got scared of their future prospects when the USSR fell and people are too well-educated to bring kids into an uncertain future” double-dip that also Russia suffers from, though Ukraine has an even lower fertility rate, 1.16 vs. 1.49, and overall that wasp waist is way more pronounced, here’s Russia. Ukraine is also losing plenty of working population to the EU, has way before people began to flee the invasion. The drain is on well-educated people, people coming to the EU as seasonal workers in agriculture etc. rather funnel money back to Ukraine.
The situation would be a catastrophe of Korean proportions if Ukrainians managed to be as in denial about the situation as Koreans are, but they’re not. It’s still severely fucked, though1.
The size of the cohorts that now got added is in comparison tiny, as you see, and I’d be surprised if they’re sending them to the front. It’s going to be training in all that newfangled western stuff and stand-off warfare for them, not the trenches.
1 I can’t help but ask: It is said that one of the main cultural differences between Germany and Austria is that in Germany, bad situations are serious but not hopeless while in Austria they’re hopeless, but not serious. What’s Ukraine’s take?
Was curious how the US stacked up and wow, that’s a huge difference! Interesting to see the Boomer Hershey’s Kiss shape at the top.
They going to conscript women?
If you’re angry at Ukraine, you aren’t looking or thinking deeply enough. This is only happening because Russia is trying to conquer Ukraine with their own conscripted soldiers. All of this ends when Russia stops their invasion.
You want the deaths to stop? Tell Putin to fuck himself with a rusty cactus and withdraw.
I was surprised the age wasn’t lower to begin with. I was expecting it’d be 18.
That’s because both Ukraine and Russia are about to have a generation that is much smaller in numbers due to the lingering effects of WW2. Especially Ukraine is hesitant of throwing that generation into the meat grinder of war and it is speculated that this was one of the factors regarding the timing of this war, because in a way it was now or never for Russia.
While Putin is undoubtedly an aggressor and the reason this entire thing is happening (and it would be amazing if someone finally stopped him), Zelensky does have power over the situation.
It’s just that he’s not gonna give anything up as well, so it ends up in a stalemate. One side tries to prove Russia’s a power to be reckoned with, the other - that you can’t just attack a country while everyone is okay with it (something that has been then dispoven in many, many cases, unfortunately, so it’s not as world-tilting as some might think)
Out of two evils, Ukraine is certainly the more righteous. But there’s a line after which you’re fine fighting with a madman who’ll be fine evaporating your entire population over something you might rather give up (and that’s not the existence of Ukraine, mind you) to save countless lives.
Zelensky has been offered to start peace talks by just about everyone in the world, not just Russian side itself, yet there he is, sending more and more men to war, men who don’t want to be there, who are not ready to sacrifice their lives in this conflict, who value themselves more than some plots of land. When you have to force people to die in order to prove your point, maybe it’s time to think again.
And of course, Putin does the same thing over a much stupider cause; this is by no means a pro-Putin or even pro-Russian argument. This is an argument for life, for the people who die in the trenches, while world leaders can’t decide who’s more right. Fuck it, stop the war, and do the talking.
P.S. Feel free to downvote if you like, but I’d be happy to see valid arguments, not just arrows down.
Here’s an argument: there is no peace with Putin’s Russia ever. This isn’t the first time Putin has invaded Ukraine. He has proven time and again that “peace” with him is just a timeout while he re-arms. Then he bites off another chunk and goes “Why do you keep fighting? Don’t you want peace, you monster?”
Not commenting on the main things you said, but it’s also very likely that america specifically is taking this as an opportunity to test and drain russia’s resources in a kind of extended proxy war, so there’s really no incentive to make a concerted effort to stop the current state of affairs, in any way. Especially as we’re seen as the good guys domestically, you know, it’s a pretty easy thing to garner support for.
Just curious, what do you think should be on the table at the peace talks?
For me, it should be the following:
Russia leaves Ukraine including Crimea and vows to never invade again. I know it didn’t work when Ukraine gave up their nukes for the same vow but one can hope.
Russia pays Ukraine back for all the damage it has done. They were the aggressors, they need to pay up.
All prisoners who were taken to Russia, including children, are to be returned.
No interference if Ukraine wants to join NATO and the EU.
I’m not an expert in peace talks, but I feel the above is fair.
It is completely fair, but the problem is, it’s in no interest for Russia.
Peace talks must include benefits for all sides, otherwise they’ll fail.
I’d say Ukraine should at least recognize Crimea as Russia, and very likely Donbass too, or at least give it certain level of autonomy. The rest of Ukraine is actually of less interest to Russia, so stopping there would probably more than satisfy Putin.
Ukraine, on its hand, should receive NATO security guarantees, preferably ascension, without Putin standing in the way of it. Russia should also pay reparations to Ukraine and release all prisoners, yes. Ukrainian side must release Russian prisoners too.
Regardless of the side Donbass ends up on, Russia must participate in recovery of the region with finances and manpower.
Feel free to downvote if you like, but I’d be happy to see valid arguments, not just arrows down.
- Should Zelensky start talking about giving up territory he’d go the way of Yanukovych. Polls show that Ukrainians would keep fighting even if all support from the west were to dry up.
- This is not about land. It’s about the people living here and the survival of Ukraine as a nation. Which btw includes Russian native speakers, Zelensky himself is one.
- Moscow’s version of peace is “you roll over and stop defending yourself so I have an easier time kicking you”. Making “peace” with Russia only means 10000 Buchas. Western pacifists falling for that line are some of the most fatuous people I’ve ever witnessed, to the point that I don’t make a distinction between Russian asset and useful idiot, any more.
1.Interesting point, could you please link the polls? Also, how recent are they? From what I’ve personally gathered, the sentiment is quite divided, with the highest support among fleeing civilians and western Ukrainians and lowest among families of drafted men and people remaining on the country’s east.
2.Lives of civilians are not threatened by peaceful Russian takeover. While there may be a concern about people serving or supporting Ukrainian armed forces throughout the war, one that needs to be directly discussed, the rest should be perfectly fine. Ukrainians inside Russia are treated no different from ethnic Russians, and the only kind of “cleansing” that is possible is likely assimilation.
3.Peace with Ukraine should absolutely have NATO involved one way or the other. Ukraine needs security guarantees, and obviously not from Russia. Luckily, as far as I’m aware, NATO is willing to directly back Ukraine up when peace is established, and ascension is on the table. Then, kicking Ukraine becomes nearly impossible.
If you were the one who has “power over the situation”, please tell us: Which parts of your country would you be willing to hand over to Putin, when he comes asking for them?
Donbass, most likely.
That’s what Putin needs the most and at the same time the region with worst sentiment towards Ukraine, even among ethnic Ukrainians (not to mention ethnic Russians comprising ~40% of the population). There can be a lot of speculations about the true sentiment of the locals (to many of whom I talked and they mostly just don’t care or are pro-Russian, but barely ever actively pro-Ukraine), but this is the place that fought Ukraine off long before the massive Russian invasion.
Now, Donbass is a source of quite a few natural resources, which is one of the key reasons Ukraine even cares about it despite the popular local sentiment (besides territorial integrity, that is), but in order to return facilities under control, it’s not enough to stop the war and officially declare it being Ukraine, it also requires the state to keep fighting local forces who are still not happy about the perspective - something that current Ukraine is questionably capable of.
So, Donbass it is. Russia happy, Ukraine free of a lot of headache, people don’t die, yay.
Putin is, for some very bizarre reason of his own. That’s about it I think.
Maybe they can draft those brave Americans and Europeans to come fight for them.
Everyone who disagrees with this Tankie: Remember to vote for Biden so Ukraine and Palestine are both able to survive their respective genocides.
Biden is currently President. What is he going to do in a second term that he couldn’t have done in his first to end this?
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It’s been less than half a year.
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Being the correct choice requires Biden only to be better than Trump.
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The person I was replying to is an obvious liar.
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The people of Ukraine and Trans Americans also hang in the balance.
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There are other considerations besides genocide to consider as well.
I’m incredibly disappointed in you. I thought you were better than this. You wouldn’t say “maybe they can draft those brave leftists to protect Palestinians”, would you?
Russia and Israel are both trying to conduct genocide and conquer land, with different degrees of success. I expected you to be anti genocide no matter the situation. I’m disappointed to see it’s just “opposite of the US” for you.
I didn’t agree with most of your takes, but I thought you were principled and they at least made me think. Guess I was wrong.
Yes voluntarily. A draft is FORCED. This is not about wanting to defend your own country this is about being forced into the meat grinder.
Zelensky recently replaced his top army general that said they were in a stalemate and now they have a guy nicknamed “the butcher”.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy wanted to give his military a shakeup by appointing General Oleksandr Syrskyi as commander-in-chief: many of his troops reacted with despair.
“Syrskyi will kill us all,” said one soldier, who like others in this story spoke on condition of being granted anonymity.
That was highlighted by Syrskyi overseeing last year’s dogged nine-month defense of Bakhmut, where Ukrainian troops suffered high casualties against relentless “meat waves” of Russian attackers before having to abandon the eastern city. That earned him the gruesome nickname of “Butcher.”
We’re busy using our tax dollars to equip them and keeping our troops where they won’t start a nuclear war.
You mean giving them enough to stabilize the line, but not enough to push it back into Russia? For fear that would trigger nuclear war?
For all the Americans who want to send troops, I think they should sign up for the Ukrainian army. If they believe in the right so much, let them go fight the war.
While I support sending weapons, I do not support sending troops.
I’ve actually considered joining the foreign legion. The commander seems fucking sketchy and not very brilliant strategically, that unnecessary risks his men. It wouldn’t be a terrible idea to actually have nato commanders directing back line logistics and training.
Training is done by nato.
So I’ve had a few beers. The problem is nato is training is combined arms. Ukraine can’t do that. We expect to control the air and nato tactics are designed around that.
I’ve met a bunch of Ukrainians online that just want the war done. They don’t care who wins. They’re seeing their family and friends die and they just want it to stop.
People seem to forget that this thing started because two oblasts didn’t want to be part of Ukraine anymore. Russia escalated it for sure, but it still started as a separatist movement inside Ukraine.
Polls show that Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to fight Russia off. You’reYour “bunch of Ukrainians online” was probably Kremlin shills.
Russia is just helping those who want to leave leave yes that’s the ticket. The best way to do this is to try to decapitate the country’s leadership with a full scale invasion that includes devastating its infrastructure affecting millions of civilian lives.
Yes
Russia is just helping those who want to leave leave yes that’s the ticket.
Not to mention, this is an issue in Palestine where there’s no guarantee that the people displaced will be able to return their homes if they leave. That’s the Egypt defense at least, but there’s plenty of Americans who agree with that notion.
By the same principle, Russia allowing people to leave but preventing them from returning would be atrocious.
I really thought about putting some type of disclaimer about how this was a response I expected.
I regret not putting that down.
The online discourse on this is so black and white it’s ridiculous.
There can be multiple reasons for things. Doesn’t mean that any side is some type of white Knight.
this thing started because two oblasts didn’t want to be part of Ukraine anymore.
Bullshit.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_People’s_Republic
There’s a luhansk one as well.
Russia backed those separatists. Russia escalated it, but there was a sizable portion of the population that wanted out of Ukraine. I have zero idea how they feel about the 2022 annexation.
There have been volunteers from those places, so this isn’t the dunk you think it is
Wow a few volunteers. Meanwhile tens of thousands of Ukrainian men are forcibly thrown into the meat grinder while people wave on enthusiastically with their flag sending them into their deaths.
A kill ratio of up to 1:10 is a meat grinder, yes, but not on the Ukrainian side.
