This is major league bullshit tho.
On linux, where the config file for a specific program is, can vary annoyingly greatly depending on what distro you’re using and sometimes the same config file exists in several places and somehow certain parts of the configuration parameters get taken from several of those files, so if you think you’ve found what the actual config file should be and remove the duplicates, suddenly the program uses defaults or doesn’t even work at all.
Yup. Is it in /usr /var /etc or /opt? Maybe in some hidden home folder? Sure, you can Google it, but there’s no guarantee you’ll find the right answer.
There are only a handful of places Windows sticks stuff, and it’s pretty predictable.
You should never be expected to edit anything in /usr, /opt or /var. That’s highly unusual. For which software did you have to do this?
Docker on RHEL saves everything in /var/lib, for example. Tenable and Nessus stick it in /opt. I’m currently doing a rhel7->8 upgrade, and that shit gets stuck everywhere.
But, I also have issues on my Pis. For a lot of the packages I use, I’m lucky if they actually put their .service file in /etc/systemd. Having to run a find / command on a pi can take forever.
Disagree. Take game saves on windows. They can be in appdata\local, appdata\roaming, documents\company-name, documents\savedgames\company-name I’m sure there are more.
Nah. 3 places.
- Appdata subfolder
- Documents
- Game installation folder
Savegame folder is then placed either ina folder with game name or studio name, so easy to check all these locations within minutes.
Let’s not talk about rpgmaker games tho. I’ve seen them do some wacky shit with gamesaves.
Edit: To make my point clearer, I disagree with person above me about their disagreement. Savegames on windows are predictable as hell. Thanks to person below for pointing out I didn’t convey. :<
What system wide software stores their configs in anything but /etc? Data, sure, but not configs.
Docker installs in /var/lib. Tenable and Nessus use /opt.
There are tons of packages that store config files in places other than /etc.
TLDR; Windows crap, I love Linux
Long read ahead, this resulted in a pretty big rant, but I feel better now:
Windows has way more silly places. From registry to ini files, assemblies, common files, services, drivers…it’s everywhere.
Do you know how an MSI packages for software installation work? Let me tell you, it’s a mess. An utter and complete garbage format. A database with hundreds of buggy functions, empty lines and internal inconsistencies. There wasn’t even a way to create them comfortably without paying for expensive software back then. Yea, im looking at you, flexera admin studio.
I automated hundreds of custom software installations on 2000 clients from windows 2000 to XP to Windows 7 to Windows 10… for >10 years, so I know what I’m talking about.
On Linux 99% of apps save global settings in /etc and usersettings in /home/user/.* or the newer way XDG_CONFIG_HOME.
But since all is a file on Linux every config can simply be copied to restore or backup settings. Almost every tool has man pages. How hard is it to run man tool and read the specifics if you need help? Windows? Sometimes you got some help files in a strange format (.hlp?). Other then that, start the browser and ask Google.
Linux package managing since 2003 has been better then it ever has been on Windows to this day.
One command to update all components? Packages will be installed and removed automatically to fulfill the dependencies of the software you want to install? Every package is build by a trusty maintainer of the OS instead of some overworked windows engineer that needs to create profit.
Do you know how Deb files work? They are simpel zips of the folder structure and files the software consists of. A textfile with metadata like maintainer, name, version and, very important: dependencies. Last but not least there are a two or three files that can contain scripts that need to be executed prior or past installation. That’s it. And you can do everything with it.
On Windows you often are forced to find the right combination of weird parameters to ensure a program starts. commandlines like “c:\windows\powershell.exe -e cmd /c program name”, happen way more often then you would expect.
On Linux I get: Global package manager and updates with trusted packages, no telemetry, more safety, no ads, better privacy…and many more.
My personal opinion: I don’t understand how people can even question the superiority of Linux for personal devices.
XDG Base Directory & XDG User Directories will help you immensely. At least, for the programs that follow the XDG specs. Also, check out XDG Ninja.
Trust me, that is not Linux specific, Windows has that bullshit as well. Everything depends on how the devs wanted to solve the local settings problem, and if you have devs that work 1 or 2 years on the project and then quit, which in turn are replaced by other devs, you get this bullshit. The new ones usually don’t wanna touch the old one’s code, or if they do, they only make minor changes, just enough to make something that’s not working, work.
This is the “appdata” folder, this is where all the application’s data goes.
So whats the “Programs” folder then?
This is also where the application’s data and files go.
But I thought thats the “Programs x86” folder.
This is also where the application’s data and files go.
Ok whats “Program Files” then?
This is also where the application’s data and files go.
So my config file is in either one if those 4?
No thats in the “Documents” folder, obviously.
Windows program data file structure has always been the wild west.
Don’t forget about the hidden ProgramData directory at the root of the file system. Ableton Live likes to install there for some ungodly reason.
Always remember, C:\ProgramData is the eqivalent of /etc in Linux. If they don’t know where to put/hide shit, but needs admin priviliges to edit and users can only read, you put it in C:\ProgramData.
I think programdata is closer to /usr/lib or maybe /var/lib.
You almost never see config files in programdata.
Game save data? No, my documents.
Application config files? Again, my documents.
Temporary documents I don’t care about keeping? Downloads, duh.
My actual documents? Desktop.
My desktop? Turned icons off because it was too messy.
Just another day using Windows…
I have to say I love having no desktop. Something about watching my coworkers become dependent on it is neurotic.
Don’t forget that appdata nowadays has 3 sub folders, local, locallow, and roaming.
Also there’s C:\programdata
Also some programs just store it in the user folder, the documents folder, or games/ my games folder if they are a game.
Oooh the registry is even more fun.
- HKLM, HKCU? These are statements dreamt up by the utterly deranged
- Store it in software, make your own root folder
- Also for 32 bit programs there wow6432node
- There’s also the policies section, but this kind of makes sense to have it split off
- Also make sure to follow the apple methodology of having multiple different key names like Apple, Apple inc., etc
I still have no idea why HK is in front… why is the key hot 🤔… and what key are we talking about…
Oh, yeah, and the different key names… Windows, Windows NT (WITH a white space…), Win…
And half the time you’ll find it in the registry too. Linux has proven quite well that an OS doesn’t need a registry.
Oh, and what’s with ProgramData and AppData being two completely different things. I understand the difference between the two directories, but there is no difference between a program and an app. Everywhere else it’s Machine/User.
Linux has proven quite well that an OS doesn’t need a registry.
Gnomes dconf would like to have a word with you. It’s really interesting how the Gnome people seem to get rid of every useful feature as it might confuse the user or be complex, but on the other hand add this registry-like anti-feature to make the system just as unmanageable as Windows.
Funny thing is, most 3rd-party utility tools don’t use registry but a config. Which makes them portable, btw.
Nowadays, yes. Go back 15+ years, the registry was used extesively.
My reasoning as to why, Linux was never a targeted platform for software back then, now it is. There was only GTK back then and it didn’t look “nice” (appealing) at all. Plus GTK apps were huge for Windows, since you’d have to also install the GTK runtimes and all that… that just took a lot of disk space, which was expensive back then. Compared to an app that does the same, but spends only 10% of the disk space needed for GTK (you could even go a lot lower with compressors), it’s obvious why GTK was never a viable option when making a GUI app.
And since Linux doesn’t have a registry (or even if it did, it’ll probably be completely optional to have it or not, so you can’t rely on users having it installed), you’d have to just save the settings in a file, just like the rest of the FOSS applications. So, it makes no sense to have completely different codebases for the same app for Windows and everything else. In fact, most apps nowadays that aim to be cross platform just use Qt. You can compile it for watever you like, there is no need to keep separate codebases.
there is no difference between a program and an app
Yeah the naming is confusing. The reason is what you said - machine vs app.
Back on Windows 9x, some apps would store files directly in the C:\Program Files directory. This was ‘fine’ at the time since every app ran with full permissions. Users were at C:\Windows\Users, but users were optional so not every install used it.
Windows XP had a better NT-based permission model (not nearly as improved as Vista, but better than 9x) and allowing regular users to write to the Program Files and Windows folders wasn’t really a good idea. It added two directories for settings:
C:\Documents and Settings\username\Applicationfor user-specific dataC:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Datafor non-user-specific data
Vista kept the former but moved the latter to C:\ProgramData. I can’t remember why.
Windows 7 moved the user stuff to C:\Users.
ProgramData is for admin stuff and things that need to be shared between users. AppData is for personalized settings per user. For example, AnyDesk stores the unattended access password in ProgramData, as well as the ID. Sure they do get copied to AppData when AnyDesk runs on boot/login on any user, but you could also have some user specific options (like language) and they get stored in a separate file in AppData.
What the fuck is local low? I don’t understand. Local is Billy G’s jizz… I get that… And Roaming is for poor plebs. But why LocalLow? Is it like cache? But I have seens games saving their save files there. I don’t understand
The folders actually do make sense.
Roaming: this data can be moved between machines in a domain if you have a roaming profile. E.g. go to another workstation and your browser configuration is the same? Means it’s in Roaming.
Local: this data will not be synchronized between machines when you roam. This could be your browser’s cache.
LocalLow: like local, but for applications that are “low integrity”, like Internet Explorer. These folders have special properties. https://helgeklein.com/blog/internet-explorer-in-protected-mode-how-the-low-integrity-environment-gets-created/
Local is for regular apps, LocalLow is for depressed apps and Roaming is for high apps looking for munchies.
You can rename them in the environment variables UI. Has anyone tried this, any software who has the path hardcoded?
Btw, here’s the paths.
Has anyone tried this, any software who has the path hardcoded?
I know for certain that some Adobe products did have these paths hardocded (past tense, haven’t tried this now), because I moved my home/user directory on D:, yet they persisted to save the settings in C:\Users.
This isn’t really accurate for either side. For Linux, I’ve had crap shove configs in ~, /etc, /var, at least.
On Windows, it could be literally anywhere or in the registry.
That’s one thing I especially like about Flatpaks on the Linux side. Everything’s in ~/.var.
Or ~/.local/share/${software_name_or_whatever}…
Or ~/.${software_name_or_whatever}/
Oof
I feel mildly aroused when I see a program or a game that collects everything in it’s folder and can be used from a USB drive. Some paid, industrial grade software leaves so much traces and depends on so much different hidden files and keys it’s making me sick.
Any game can be used from a USB drive if that USB drive is running a live OS.
That is good… unless you plan on sharing the app between users, then it sucks, because every user has to be an admin in order to change the config… and then, you have one user that sets it like so and so, and another that sets it completely different. And this is why separate settings for users is a good thing. Sure, have an option for a global config, and let that copy be copied to the local config as sane defaults, but not having the option to actually have separate configs in user directories is, from an IT perspective, insane.
