Video games also have potential legal advantages over IQ tests for companies. You could argue that “we only hire people good at video games to get people who fit our corporate culture of liking video games” but that argument doesn’t work as well for IQ tests.
yet again an original post title that self-sneers
If you’re going to hiring discrimination*, don’t talk about your discrimination strategy in public.
*(I assume the lesswrongeurs are assuming that IQ tests are going to be made illegal because black IQ test scores (on average) are lower than white IQ test scores (on average) and rather than interrogate this weird data the lesswrongeurs seem to have accepted as gospel that this test gap is immutable and possibly just the natural side effect of having melanin rather than a product of 100s of variables that had nothing to do with biology)
Veritasium, a popular science channel on YouTube, released a video just a few days ago explaining what IQ is and how it works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkKPsLxgpuY
IQ is not properly measured from a random website. If someone announced they have a 200 IQ because of some scam site, that doesn’t mean actual IQ tests are invalid. The problem is with that website, and the gullible test-taker.
Every time I’ve heard someone say IQ tests are meaningless, 100% of the time they admit they’ve never heard of Spearman or the G factor, which would have been covered in a relevant Psychology course at university.
It’s not everything in life, but IQ is real, measurable, and has value in predicting how well someone will do with various challenges in the future.
This was debunked over 40 years ago.
What is the reason for the pernicious resilience of the IQ myth?
Spearman was never able to find a g. It’s always shown to be a statistical artefact.
*smh* and then the fallacious comparison to climate change.
IQ tests, in common with most “race science”, doesn’t produce good results.
Climate change constantly does.
You’re more like Room Temperature superconductors. (Which may even be becoming real! As opposed to IQ.)
What is the reason for the pernicious resilience of the IQ myth?
starts with “r” (and ends “acists”)
Timnit Gebru demonstrates that AI is the intellectual heir of IQ tests which spring from the eugenics movement. If only I was a fraction as smart.
most of us here have heard of them, know the history of IQ in as much detail as you need to to counter race scientists, and understand perfectly well that it’s largely nonsense, but thanks anyway
Neither the LessWrong post, nor my comment, even touched on race. Pretending like either did is a strawman. You can’t defend your position, so you call people racists when they never did anything of the sort.
understand perfectly well that it’s largely nonsense
There have been studies like the National Longitudinal Study of Youth that showed IQ could predict many different life outcomes.
Do you think that test was fraudulent? Why are you dismissing research that is widely accepted, and published by professional psychologists who have meticulously documented their data?
This entire debate reminds me of the climate change debate: One side that cites research, data, and knows the relevant concepts. Another side who doesn’t ever cite actual research, can’t elaborate on how they got to their conclusion, and dismisses the science without giving any reason.
@mind @sneerclub Here’s the problem: that study DID NOT show that IQ could “predict” anything. It showed a CORRELATION but that’s a totally different thing. IQ is not determinative or causative of anything, because it is an entirely synthetic metric whose measurement is based on unproven and essentially unprovable theory.
The concept of “Innate General Intelligence” which IQ purports to quantify is the phlogiston of psychology.
You can’t defend your position, so you call people racists when they never did anything of the sort.
drink! and so early in the day too
You can test people with bigger problems, like remembering the units in Wargame Red Dragon
The fact that this “bigger problem” is rote memorization aside, it looks like there are a whopping 1700 units in that game. With names like M113A3 Super Dragon, CH46-C Phrog, or LVTP-7A1. Imagine some horrible dystopian future where you get to lock yourself up in your room for a couple months with an Anki deck trying to memorize as many Wargame: Red Dragon units as possible.
Your brain would probably be fried by the time you edge out the competition for your completely-non-Red-Dragon-related job.
Hmmmmmm
https://www.reddit.com/r/wargame/comments/86ohj3/why_is_wargame_chat_full_of_nazis/
I was inspired to search “wargame red thunder forums racism” by this though-provoking post, which I got from somewhere (here? search gives me nothing)
https://kotaku.com/the-struggle-over-gamers-who-use-mods-to-create-racist-1826606138
not gonna lie i clicked to see if they mentioned any games im good at. ended up both disappointed they didn’t and disappointed at wtf im even reading.
i propose we measure people based on how much they are able to enjoy sims 4.
I agree with the post title, but only because video games have value and IQ tests absolutely do not
IQ tests are notorious for working poorly above ~135, and I’d say they only really work well for -20 to +0 relative to the designers, with a somewhat wider range for teams.
wait so how do the IQ test designers get their IQs tested? if the scouter explodes when it measures your IQ, do you get to design the tests?
Have you played something like Slay the spire? Or Mechabellum that is popular right now? Deck builders don’t require coordination at all but demands understanding of tradeoffs and managing risks. If anything those skills are neglected parts of intelligence.
nice! by the Slay the Spire metric, I’ve got like a 180 IQ. time to dunk on these nerds
(I’m also gonna download Mechabellum cause it looks like entirely my shit. not the first time I’ve ignored all of the “salient” points in a rat post and went straight for the game recommendations)
video games have value and IQ tests absolutely do not
IQ tests have proven to be a good predictor of job performance, health, and likelihood of being convicted for a crime.
The main study for this was the National Longitudinal Study of Youth, which took IQ tests and followed the same participants throughout their life. IQ was shown to be a better predictor than family income, and other factors.
Being able to predict job performance has value for companies who want long-term reliable employees. It has value for schools and students so that those struggling can get additional help before bigger problems pop up.
You know I misread this post due to the janky format of the new website and I just wanted you to understand as you go that I really thought you could have had something great with the version of this where you’re arguing that very defensive gamers are predicted to be more intelligent and do less crime than black people, but no: you just had to be the brainlet with the oldest fuckin’ “actually IQ test are real and magic” shtick on the internet
and likelihood of being convicted for a crime.
do you think there are any confounding factors there
EDIT: actually, forget it, you’ve been deleting and reposting to try to promote this stuff, bye now
@dgerard @sneerclub IQ is a metric for how sneaky people are.
The conclusions made about IQ were done after controlling for factors like race and family income, which you would know if you even did a cursory study of the research behind these tests, because you weren’t the first person to ask that. Controlling for confounding variables was always a big part of IQ research.
I’m sure we both know that race and family income will have a big effect on life outcomes, regardless off who you are as a person. To account for that, you can control for both factors and see how IQ impacted life outcomes when those stay the same.
According to the NLSY, a big study often referenced to establish how good IQ is as a predictor, shows that even with a race or income bracket, a higher IQ is linked to better life outcomes.
video games have value and IQ tests absolutely do not
IQ tests have proven to be a good predictor of job performance, health, and likelihood of being convicted for a crime
Predicting those does have value, because it can help companies making hiring decisions and help those struggling before they start having bigger problems.
video games have value and IQ tests absolutely do not
IQ tests have proven to be a good predictor of job performance, health, and likelihood of being convicted for a crime
Predicting those does have value, because it can help companies making hiring decisions and get those struggling with help before they start having bigger problems.