The only threat to this burgeoning community is the same old divide & collapse nonsense that separates citizens under their overlords everywhere.
I would create accounts and start calling to defederate instances which allow non-polite (or politically incorrect or otherwise offensive) communities.
We didn’t just survive the trolls on reddit. We thrived amongst them. We can handle them. We can block them.
I want curatorial tools to curate my own feed. I absolutely 100% do NOT want any admins telling me what I can’t read. And going to another instance is no solution if that instance is blocked.
I don’t want to be on a purely polite ecosystem, or a purely right-wing-idiot ecosystem. I want access to everybody, and the tools to curate that experience.
The trolls do NOT have the power to take us down. But the admins definitely do.
Welcome to the Defediverse.
So you’re pretending that users who call for defederating an alt-right instance are basically trolls that created their account just for that and to divide users? When it’s well known that it’s alt-right communities that are filled with bots and foreign troll farms?
Ok.
At the same time “people” against it keep recreating new discussions about being against defederation… Seems pretty sus to me 🤔 You’re sure you’re barking at the right tree? I’m starting to suspect that you guys are just a bunch of EH (or whatever) users coming here to cause trouble… It would fit with the fact that a whole bunch of anti-defederation users were also hanging around or moderating on the local T_D community until it was banned.
You know you can create your own instance and you can be its sole user so you get to chose what you do with it? The admin here decided to give users democratic control over the instance and contrary to a Nation, it’s very very easy to move to another instance if your disagree with the will of the majority so much that you don’t feel welcome anymore.
So you’re pretending that users who call for defederating an alt-right instance are basically trolls that created their account just for that and to divide users?
Nope. I’m saying defederation plays into the hands of BigSocial. They’re laughing as we divide ourselves so they can easily conquer.
When it’s well known that it’s alt-right communities that are filled with bots and foreign troll farms?
Many troll farms are not foreign, you xenophobe!
And are YOU “pretending” that every shitposter and non-politically-correct interlocutor is a “foreign” (??) troll bot?
Remember, we didn’t leave reddit because of trolls. We left reddit because of overbearing admins. I don’t want to also leave lemmy because of overbearing admins.
Many troll farms are not foreign, you xenophobe!
It’s a Canadian instance so yeah, troll farms are foreign.
BigSocial
Alright, you’re just pissed because it’s your friends that are getting deplatformed, you just made that pretty clear.
And are YOU "pretending" that every shitposter and non-politically-correct interlocutor is a "foreign" (??) troll bot?
No, I’m just stating a fact, the majority of troll farms are impersonating alt-right people, not people on the left and it’s an alt-right instance people are asking to see defederated because the extremes left instance is already defederated anyway.
Remember, we didn't leave reddit because of trolls. We left reddit because of overbearing admins. I don't want to also leave lemmy because of overbearing admins.
I just gave you the solution, be your own admin, create your own instance, shitpost wherever you want and let this instance be managed the way the admin decided it should be.
Edit:
That’s fucking rich!
In your history:
https://sh.itjust.works/comment/449630
So you just proved that you don’t mind defederation as long as it suits your interests. How hypocritical of you… Which is funny because that’s always what happens when looking at the post history of the anti-defederation, they have a comment somewhere about them agreeing with censorship of some sort but are screaming that all censorship is bad if it concerns something they’re attached to.
F off back to exploding heads you troll.
you don’t mind defederation as long as it suits your interests
I want to keep reddit & meta corporate goons from taking over this corner of the internet. That’s completely different from preventing two people from communicating via federated networks. This is totally consistent with giving control to the users. I want the users to have control, and to NOT have it taken away by admins. In both scenarios this is what I’m arguing for, and that’s clear and obvious.
F off back to exploding heads you troll.
If you talk this way to people who respectfully disagree, you’re the same kind of toxic person that you want to ban. The defederation is fueled by hate. You’re so eager to exile. And that’s consistent with your ugly remarks to me.
I think I get where they’re coming from, it’s like how sometimes how I’ll pop on over to /r/conservative every now and then to read through some of the posts, although the majority is “the schools are turning our kids trans”
I like to see things from other people’s perspective, despite how Internet opposed to it I may be. When I hear a new story for example, there’s typically two versions of it. One from a voice that seems reasonable and well tempered and one that’s rash and unhinged.
Often I’ll find that the truth sometimes lies somewhere in between, not saying it’s right in the middle, but having a fuller perspective helps me come to own conclusions.
With that said, I don’t think this way of consuming media works for all people or even most people. I’m a pretty objective person, maybe even to a fault. I’m not offended easily, which makes viewing communities that many would find delusional and offensive not an unpleasant experience for me.
Again, people who don’t agree with the way an instance is managed can just take their luggage and leave for an instance they prefer or they can create their own instance. That’s decentralization baby!
Feels like the crypto crowd, people complaining about management because they don’t understand what decentralization means.
Not happy? Create your own project and manage it however you like. Be the change you want to see, that’s the power you’re given here and that you don’t have in the real world!
Again, people who don’t agree with the way an instance is managed can just take their luggage and leave for an instance they prefer or they can create their own instance.
We can toss this right back at you. If you’re all for defederating anything you don’t like, there’s other instances to use.
But now you are asking for the equivalent of every reddit user to make their own subreddit, host it and curate a feed to it, so they can browse it.
I mean sure, but it’d be like saying, you don’t like the options for food, so grow your own, the seeds are there. You may want some junk food, but you may also want some organic vegitable produce or something inbetween. Supermarkets are double edges sowrds with everything inbetween, but to open your own/grow your own/source your own from the bulk suppliers, although possible, is astronomically more man hours of curation time.
But with all that said, the initial and I think leading point of the post was not the indivdual filtering, but rather, that they think a divide and conquer approach would be most effective against a Fediverse. Where one would want to prevent the expansion and adoption of a fediverse as a threat of info hoarding.
I’d be inclined to agree that as pack animals a NT person is going to want to group up in the largest instance. So, the larger the instance, the more likely they are going to want to join it. And should it get huge amounts of people, they’d get fomo.
If there are as many instances as there are subreddit equivalents, for want of the accurate name, people just wont bother that much, no?
I think I get where they’re coming from, it’s like how sometimes how I’ll pop on over to /r/conservative every now and then to read through some of the posts, although the majority is “the schools are turning our kids trans”
I like to see things from other people’s perspective, despite how Internet opposed to it I may be. When I hear a new story for example, there’s typically two versions of it. One from a voice that seems reasonable and well tempered and one that’s rash and unhinged.
But this can also be done by going to the defederated instance directly. Just like you would visit the subreddit directly because it would rarely show up in /r/all
This is exactly it.
Defederation, to my mind (and someone feel free to correct me) is about minimizing a given server’s exposure to other servers that, by one definition or another, are problematic. Bots made out of the control of the people maintaining the server, servers with a large concentration of trolls, or other factors that either create risk for an instance owner or a shitty experience for the users as a net group they support.
For anyone crying out “Censorship! Hive minds and safe spaces for soy bois!” - these other instances don’t just disappear. You can still reach them, still read them, still make an account there, still capture RSS feeds, etc. etc. As a user, you have plenty of ways to see and interact with whatever instance you choose, even if one instance is defederated from another.
Both explodingheads* and lemmygrad, in my opinion, are appropriate candidates for defederation with the above in mind. Both far-right and far-left politically focused communities with loose moderation are prone to brigading and, given laws around hate speech in Canada, create legal risks for sh.itjust.works (yes, lemmygrad too, calls for or support of genocide against racial or religious minorities are hate speech no matter what your rationale is). Cutting off direct interaction between these instances is a protection to our admin’s resources and level of liability.
But if you, personally, want to engage with these communities, there’s literally nothing stopping you, you just can’t do it from here. Stop expecting that one specific instance will spoon-feed you everything you want, every time - that’s how we got to where we are with mainstream social media. Where splinters exist, figure out ways around them.
*mentioned though I think we’re still federated with EH? What’s the hold up?
I’m not necessarily calling them psy ops (because we all know that corporations are too wholesome to do anything so sneaky). But I am 100% saying that they play into the hands of meta and google etc.
Do you think Google saw XMPP as a threat?
Edit: “threat” isn’t the right word. I should have said “potential revenue stream.” And once something is a (potential) revenue stream, a business will try to maximize that revenue. Just look at what reddit is doing with its API…
Did you read about meta reaching out to the Mastodon folks, seeking to host a private talk?
We did not thrive amongst trolls on Reddit. Reddit banned and contained certain subreddits. It works. It made the platform a better place for everyone else. Defederation accomplishes the same thing
Defederating instances doesn’t just block a hateful subreddit. It blocks all the communities and members.
Also, we totally 100% thrived among them before they were banned.
Also, they didn’t always ban them. They sometimes just blocked them from /r/all but we could still go read them and interact.
Defederation is unhealthy and gross.
defedrate until mods catch up with the task of cleaning rancid human waste, then refederate again, no problem. things shouldn’t be rushed. take the ukraine war for exemple, the enemy is slowly but surely weakend to its death. also if an instance gets to be defederated, their user base have to be aware that there are trolls among them, and that they need to learn manners and behave, while instance admin/mods have to block sign ups and ban the culprit usernames. once the sanitation work is complete, they could reach out to the instance that got defederated from them so they could refederate, and from then on its a matter of credibility and trust. if an instance admin isnt serious about cleaning his intance he could stay locked out to oblivion and the unfortunate users could blame their instance admin for its demise and not making their time spent there worthwile… and from then on it is just survival of the fittest: whoever get to maintain his instance will rack up a healthy userbase.
the whole point of fediverse is that everyone should spin up their own instance. if everyone just joins someone else’s server, it kinda defeats the purpose.
and yea, if i was them, i would also create a bunch of accounts to spam non-leftwing-moderated instances with racist and nazi stuff to give them ammunition for defederation, just like they do on 4chan
edit: addendum: activity pub sucks
Maybe I’m being pessimistic, but this whole thing is starting to sound like “don’t interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.” Was it rigged from the start? For a couple of days everyone was civil and in less than a week, “Let’s Get Ready toooo RUMBLE”!
Was there another way?
