I wanted to get others’ takes but it seems like the only real way to get a non-spying car is to get an older car without any sort of telemetrics. I saw a video about different car companies’ security policies, well specifically the new Mental Outlaw video, and it just blew me away how even our cars aren’t safe. Anyone got tips for how to anonymize their car?

95 points

Mozilla Foundation did a deep dive into this. And the results where abysmal. The only brands not completely horrifying where Renault/Dacia because they are European and only serve the European market so they have to follow GDPR.

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5 points

Wait, Renault doesn’t ship anything outside the EU?

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7 points

It does, to India.

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1 point

They used to but stopped AFAIK. I am not completely sure but that’s what I read when the Mozilla Foundation report came out. The other reply said to India so maybe my information is not completely accurate…

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2 points

Nice to know

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55 points

The problem with the “just buy old cars” is that I want a used electric car for like $10k.

We need a wiki of EVs that.has a section on each model enumerating which components are used to spy on you and videos showing how to neuter them.

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12 points

The best privacy from an EV is an electric bicycle

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11 points
*

Well, would be nice to be able to haul drywall and not get wet. There are some projects for this, but they’re a bit immature and documentation is lacking

https://openmotors.co

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-3 points

You can haul a lot of weight by bike, especially if you use a trailer. How often do you really haul things? Just rent a panel van on days you want to move shit.

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3 points

And then they’ll add the same tracking to them too.

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3 points

My ebike comes with a GPS tracking app to locate it. Luckily it’s optional but it’s already begun

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1 point

Not all. Bosch equipped ebikes send name/address when they get serviced.neither rad nor aventon have systems smart enough to record data at all. I dont think shimano ebikes are smart either.

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12 points

Yeah with EVs it seems like improving the privacy would be a pain, since they are reliant on parts of the digital system that is causing the privacy problem in the first place. I’m planning on sticking with a gen 3 Prius for awhile.

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2 points
*

Are you sure the gen3 Prius doesn’t have these sensors and privacy issues? I had a gen2 Prius and that thing had loads of sensors everywhere.

I ask because I’m seriously considering buying a gen3 Prius. Do you have any resources you can link me to where researches actually did an audit of this car to see what info it collected and what was uploaded to Toyota or the mechanics?

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1 point
*

I don’t really know much about that except for the fact that it does not have any form of a digital transponder that actively sends data it could be storing it though. Here is a site about vehicle privacy where I just looked up a random gen 3 Prius vin. (https://vehicleprivacyreport.com/report/?vin= JTDKN3DU1A000806#)

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6 points

We need a wiki of EVs that.has a section on each model enumerating which components are used to spy on you and videos showing how to neuter them.

I have been thinking we need something like this but for all new vehicles, not just EVs. Like instructables but for how to locate and rip out the cellular radio/antenna on every make and model that has one.

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6 points

Definitely. But its more complicated than that.

My understanding is that many cars store the information airgapped and then upload it to the dealer when the mechanic pluggs into the car doing routine service checks.

So we need the wireless/radio neutering, but also someone needs to hook up to the car and see if/what data can be leaked via hard wire. And possibly find ways to disable the sensors, send random/nonsense data, update the software to not store sensitve data, automatically wipe the data every time the car turns on, or at least document how to manually wipe the data when you pull into the shop for maintenance.

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4 points

Oof, yeah, didn’t think about that. Much more complicated.

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3 points

Exactly. Like I got a new android phone last week and I want to make it more.private. I want be afraid of making mistakes. Any mistake I can do can be undone.

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13 points

Yeah fortunately there’s tons of info on the internet on how to security harden phones. Its down to a science

Hardening cars is wild west right now.

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12 points

Hardening cars is wild west right now.

The cars should not need to be hardened. That is what needs to stop, imo!!

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43 points

Remove the cellular modem.

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30 points

What are the chances the software is designed to throw errors and “See a technician” messages if you dk?

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25 points
*

I’ve heard it can cause problems in some models, so people need to do their research. With my truck it’s dead easy and are no drawbacks.

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12 points

We need an iFixit-like database giving each car a score about how easy it is to unplug the telematics units and what errors it may result in, complete with a score.

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9 points

My suggestion, if you’re looking for a new car, is to research where the modem in the car is, and unplug it during the test drive (assuming it’s reachable).

I unplugged the one in my work truck, 2023 Ford F150. They call it the “Telematics unit” and it’s on the rear cab wall on the right side, hidden behind the sound deadening foam. I did this after it was bought, but if I had known about it before my boss paid it, I definately would have tried it before the test drive to make sure, and I plan to do it if/when I look for a newer car!

I unplugged every cable coming into it - power, antennas, data, all of them! The only issue that comes up is the center screen on the dash crashes back to the main menu when you try to open the data/wifi settings.

No other issues so far after almost 5k miles! No warnings, no lights on the dash, nothing! Android auto/carplay even still works! Don’t know yet if the dealer will try to plug the unit back in during the next service, but I intend to raise hell if they try!

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5 points

Depends on the car but I’d say the chance is above 50%

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5 points

Not small, but I think you’ll have better chances with the mid level commuter cars. You’ll probably get some error messages on some of them, but if you can ignore them, they wouldn’t stop the car from running.It’s the high end ones and EVs that have a higher chance of bricking if you disable the antenna.

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9 points

Most of the cars will still try to connect to open Wifi when available to upload data.

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5 points

Very nice ! That’s when you can start spying on your car’s behavior.

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1 point

Not really. If they use TLS / HTTPS then you won’t see a damn thing.

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5 points

Get rid of the car

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4 points

Perhaps disconnecting the RF antenna, and replacing it with an appropriate termination?

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4 points

And add a Faraday’s cage. There are other things except for cellular connection used in cars such as WiFi and Bluetooth.

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7 points

That’s impractical. Bluetooth and Wi-Fi also needs modems so just remove those too.

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-1 points

I mean sure if you can find and remove them. They’re very small.

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3 points

I’d want bluetooth for music from my phone though. And it’d be nice if my phone’s cellular and GPS didn’t get blocked.

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5 points

Isn’t your phone far more connected to your identity than your car? As in, if your worried about Toyota or Ford tracking your vehicles driving statistics it seems using GPS and wifi and Bluetooth on your phone that also has all your payment info, browsing history, and all your passwords saved defeats the entire purpose of worrying about your car. However, at least your phone gives you a benefit to using it like navigation and music, your car just mines your location data.

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2 points

But then the car can send the data via unprotected WiFi spots. I don’t think you can turn off autoconnect.

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25 points

ITT people are all dismissive because you can’t actually be anonymous on the road (license plates, speed cameras…), but, honestly, I just want a car that doesn’t listen in on my conversations, sell my data to brokers, require any passanger to accept the privacy policy, or record the times I have sex (jk it won’t be able to if I don’t have any)

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18 points

It’s possible to get cars as new as 2019 where you can just pull a fuse. But it starts to get tricky.

Example my C7 Vette it only took about that (it was a bit of an ordeal to not brick the car) but it’s not connected to shit anymore.

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12 points

Telemetry data will still be saved in the car systems, but not broadcast anywhere. So not too bad

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15 points

Right to repair must apply to cars as well.

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Privacy

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A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

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