Is there any flavor of libertarianism that even in theory makes sense? I lump libertarians together which I guess is unfair but I only talk to them online and they always seem to so similar however they define themselves with nuance. I find them to be ridiculous, obnoxious, and selfish.
For example - at Bluesky I just had an argument with a self-described socio-libertarian who was against “disruptive” protests against climate change. The character limit at Bluesky makes an actual discussion pointless in a situation like this. But they were an asshole anyway so that limit did me a favor. And I didn’t need to her some kind of fantastical thinking about the magic of the free market solving climate change.
Here’s what Wikipedia has to say about libertarian socialism…
Libertarian socialism is an anti-authoritarian and anti-capitalist political current that emphasises self-governance and workers’ self-management. It is contrasted from other forms of socialism by its rejection of state ownership and from other forms of libertarianism by its rejection of private property. Broadly defined, it includes schools of both anarchism and Marxism, as well as other tendencies that oppose the state and capitalism.
Libertarian Socialism is effectively the end game of Communism, from what I understand of Marx’s meaning by the eventual “withering away of the state”.
Unfortunately, the ethos adherents are typically just a bunch of theory illiterate very onliners who like the idea of not paying taxes and doing whatever they like, but also, trying to still be humanists.
They are skipping all the hard work steps, which involve revolutionary solidarity and action which deliberately dismantles the structures which protect capitalist power. Anarcho-Syndicalists completely ignored that the people who have monopolized capital will fight tooth and nail to maintain and preserve their privileges. They will murder using war and police without remorse.
Libertarian Socialists will try to both-sides the state monopoly on violence. This is a false equivalency logical fallacy. The Capitalist state will do extra-judicial murder all the time in order to protect their hoards. They are anti-human dragons. The Communist state is explicitly pro-human, and uses violence to fight back or to protect and preserve the people’s revolution, because without that ever vigilant revolutionary spirit, we will again fall victim to the psychopathic greed of the anti-human Capitalist.
Is violence always bad? Sadly, it is not. Humanity was born out of a violent nature, and was raised amidst it. But humanity will have to fight for justice, and preserve it.
I will say, imho, libertarian socialism (anarcho-communism as well) is an easier pill for some to swallow as an introduction to leftist thought.
It sort of just follows the thought of “everyone will get along because they will”. My real introduction to serious leftist thinking was right after I read parenti I decided to read some kropotkin and it got me into this sort of thought. And it didn’t take much reading of Marx to get me out of that headspace.
Many are just unwilling to realize how a communist state is needed not only for the early formation of a communist state but also for defense against capitalist forces.
True. It was for me. Noam Chomsky is a little inscrutable at first, but a good example of the ethos perspective.
Being raised in the states by parents who used “Commie” as a cuss made it a difficult indoctrination to overcome to even consider the notion of a people’s state requirement first before any chance at utopia.
But then I joined a Communist Minecraft server last summer and joined Hexbear and Lemmygrad and now I wonder what took me so long to come around.
I think the biggest obstacle for me personally was the notion of means-to-an-end based morality being dangerous, and how it can be used to justify any atrocity.
But stuff like gulaging unrepentant landlords is obviously justifiable lol.
Parenti is awesome.
Yes, watch the documentary series, Mad Max.
Lenin tells us “Only political power is real, everything else is an illusion.”
A political ideology that specifically sets out not to hold political power just lands you squarely in the field of irreality.
In defense of Anarchist comrades, I think most of them understand Lenin’s point intuitively and correctly identify that wielding revolutionary political power to bring about their ideas is necessary. Right wing libertarians don’t, so their ideology is fundamentally not tethered to the real.
I’m not totally sure I fall in the realm of anarchist, because I typically still want voting and some form of organizing, I just don’t like the power structure and needless abstraction of representatives. I typically describe an ideal form of society as one composed of many small communities, that are sufficiently small for consensus democracies to be effective. That is, every rule is workshopped until it has unanimous support. So there are still rules, but through discussion and compromise, everyone supports every rule they follow. Travel and migration should be freely allowed, so people can find communities they are politically compatible with (perhaps by finding someone to trade houses with or asking to move in with someone). For projects that require scale to be reasonable, such as a form of currency for trading or a rail line or something, these communities can form coalitions, where decisions still require unanimity from a larger amount of people now, but only on the policies relevant to the coalition.
The point is, the above still follows what I think the spirit of anarchism is: spreading power as thinly as possible, treating individuals as equals and preventing them from being subjugated by another.
I don’t think that what I described would be allowed to exist today due to imperialism, but I see it as an ideal that can be achieved eventually, as the contradictions of capital inevitably lead to a more equal and just society. That is, since socialism/communism are more stable than capitalism, eventually a society such as I described shouldn’t have to be strong enough (militaristically nor controlling information) to defend itself against imperialism, and can then just peacefully exist.
Yeah I totally vibe with what you’re saying, and despite having a different vision of the future I think what you describe is generally compatible with what a more orthodox Marxist or ML outlook prescribes in terms of the political action that’s necessary right now. I think the issue of allergy to power, what I’m criticizing, is something you find in the right-libertarians that don’t have a coherent plan to achieve that vision. But you probably would agree with me that building organized labor, anti-colonial struggle, queer liberation groups, etc to escalate the contradictions is the way that we build political power, which can then be leveraged to create a world where this vision is possible.
I know it’s not supposed to be censoring Stirner’s favorite word, but it’s very funny to pretend it is.
at Bluesky I just had an argument with a self-described socio-libertarian
I think masturbating would have been a better use of your time
Libertarians don’t make sense by design. They are what happens when people are kept as politically ignorant as possible and proud of it.
