Using a social perspective to autism, I would appreciate if there were a way to classify someone as autistic without calling it a disorder. Yes, we have difficulties, but from a social perspective, a lot of them come from society being structured to meet the needs of allistics. They get guidance, acceptance, and ultimately privilege of a world that is designed for them, while we have to try to meet their expectations. From this perspective, we’re not disordered, but oppressed/marginalized. How does that make us disordered?
I agree that there are different levels of functioning, and that some individuals might meet criteria for a disorder due to autism spectrum characteristics, so that would be valid. However, many individuals would function quite well in a setting that was designed to raise, educate, and accommodate autistic brains.
Anyone have any insight or ideas on this?
You do realize the word has a meaning?
“an illness or condition that disrupts normal physical or mental functions”
Generally people are born with 4 limbs because that is the normal, if you are born without them it’s abnormal you need to use words to classify things, the world operates on the norm… it wouldn’t make sense to make all cars be only able to operate for people who were born without limbs
Saying that, just because you have a disorder doesn’t make you any less of a person, anyone that thinks that is a moron… basically don’t get hung up on a word, you had no choice in your biology/birth you just got what you got
They way you describe it as being oppressed or marginalized you are gonna be well on your way to always being a victim if you want to frame your worldview that way
I mostly agree, except for the last part about marginalization. The idea you can always overcome whatever disability/disorder/whatever with hard work and the right mindset is not accurate at all. And that’s not you wanting to be a victim, it’s you advocating for what you need. Accommodations exist for everyone, they just cater to abled/neurotypical people instead. Once I finally admitted to myself I was disabled and stopped trying to live my life like I am 100% able bodied improved my life A LOT.
And disabled/chronically ill/neurodivergent people DO face a lot of discrimination regardless of if you want to admit it or not. We should be fighting for improvement in treatment, acknowledging people treat you like less of a person doesn’t mean you actually are less of a person. ESPECIALLY in the current political climate… once LGBT+ people are dehumanized sufficiently disabled people are going to be next.
I can see how you interpreted that last part that way I didn’t mean it like that, what I was trying to say is I’m arguing that the word disorder is strictly that it’s a genetic disorder and having it doesn’t make you any less of a person it’s a biological issue
I’m not advocating a positive mindset cures all (otherwise depression and anxiety wouldn’t exist) and people with disabilities don’t experience hardships, of course they do but at the same time you are a person that can try to not allow others to dictate your feelings, life is hard enough as it is don’t let someone who looks down upon you determine your worth as their opinion is just that… an opinion
Does homosexuality disrupt normal physical or mental functions? No.
Does ADHD, Bipolar, Autism, Depression, and others disrupt normal physical or mental functions? Yes.
Couldn’t it be argued that homosexuality disrupted normal function in society due to societal expectations, which is also the primary way that ADHD produces functional disability? If society has different requirements would ADHD still be a disorder?
Just playing devil’s advocate.
It’s funny how you immediately brought that up when it has nothing to do with it and as Johnny said it doesn’t disrupt anything mentally or physically so no, but nice try to make it an issue that wasn’t even talked about
I could see this argument though. If society takes on the value that the main purpose of every single living organism is to reproduce, then homosexuality could be considered a disorder since “homosexuals” would have difficulties fulfilling life’s mandate (per society). I don’t agree with that, but I can see the argument.
Well I also don’ agree with that, but if we wouldn’t reproduce, we would go extinct.
As a person with ADHD, I totally hear you.
You’re right that in a different world, built for any particular neurodivergence, the balance of challenges would be different.
For me though, I’ve learned to acknowledge that no fictional world-building could make me better at remembering names, faces, birthdays, the stories I’ve already told someone, or keep me from burning out my interest in new passions.
At the end of the day, despite people thinking I’m “smart” and getting along well with others, I’m constantly exhausted by the additional effort it takes and nobody sees the excessive downtime it takes for me to recharge.
I always think of GATTACA and how in a world of genetically modified rich people, a man has to hustle hard to blend in. It’s a constant effort 24/7 just to create the illusion that I’m operating the same as everyone else.
The other thing is that most of the socioeconomic changes that would benefit me, would also benefit everyone else. Which is good, but means the balance would not be dramatically changed.
I’ve realized my internal discomfort with acknowledging my condition as a disability, stems from believing a disability makes me lesser. What has alleviated that discomfort is realizing that’s not how people see each other in real life (in general).
My sense of being lesser, of unfair struggle, comes from capitalism exclusively valuing persons/things that best grow the wealth if those with capital.
I’m not lesser because I’m a bad person, or a stupid person. I FEEL lesser because the world I live in let’s people die when they can’t afford a hospital visit, and only values human life to the extent that it makes rich people richer.
It doesn’t even matter if you bring greater value to the world with your art, if capitalists can’t monetize it for themselves.
As capitalism’s stranglehold tightens on everybody exponentially, the rest of the world is starting to get a taste if disenfranchisement for themselves. As more people recognize the root of so many problems, people will continue pushing for more radical change.
We might not live to see the best outcome of this fight, but know that you aren’t fighting you struggles alone and your obstacles aren’t your fault.
I agree that capitalism makes us value each other based on the amount of wealth we can accumulate. It’s sad to see people defined by how they are able to enrich themselves rather than by who they are as a whole. Now, if we someone with a neurodivergence and they don’t help accumulate wealth as much, they are lower in the hierarchy, even if people decline to accept it. Sadly, I’ve seen videos that argue that autistic people are being sought out by some companies for their ability to focus and desire for order. The videos were arguing that autistic people have their strengths too. While I get the point, it’s still reducing a human to their contribution to capital.
know that you aren’t fighting you struggles alone and your obstacles aren’t your fault.
Thank you very much! That made me tear up. I love this community. ❤️
Generally speaking, the DSM classifies things as “Disorders” if they affect your ability to function day to day. It’s language that helps justify accomodations to employers and to otherwise justify that help is needed.
One of the most important aspects of diagnosing any disorder today is whether it causes psychological stress.
This takes your social surroundings and society into account.
In a perfect world that accommodates autistic people, their condition wouldn’t cause them any psychological strain so they wouldn’t be diagnosed (because there is no need for a treatment).
Sadly in the world we live in, being autistic does make life more difficult and stressful, therefore a diagnosis is needed to give the affected the help they need to cope with their issues in society.
Generally, the thought experiment “if society was different…” is rarely helpful in my opinion. People have to deal with their life within the society we have, it’s not going to change overnight.
I respectfully disagree. If no one ever questioned society there would be no progress. Society is constituted by people and people can change their minds, that’s how progress happens. It’s why gay marriage is legal in so many countries and women and black people have equal rights (at least in law).
Its a disorder, not calling it one is not making it any less of a disorder.
Asperger’s was a syndrome, and they stopped calling it that, so it’s no longer a syndrome. The DSM is highly culturally-based.
Asperger’s was a syndrome, and they stopped calling it that, so it’s no longer a syndrome.
Those words only have meaning to a US American. I am a Asperger. My diagnosis is Asperger and I do not want to be called ASD Level something.
But isn’t this the entire point? You like to call yourself that, and that is perfectly fine, but ultimately all of these words come from psychiatric diagnosis, from the DSM. That is where the labels were defined, that is where our cultural understanding of the neurotype comes from.
Our culture has defined that you are disordered because of your way of being, you’ve been diagnosed as such. Another culture, a former culture will not have defined it that way. So you calling it a disorder is not based on anything absolute, it is based in a cultural understanding.
I was diagnosed with autism level 1, not aspergers, because: 1 - We now understand that describing people based on ‘functioning’ is extremely damaging to the individual; and 2 - Asperger tested on children for the Nazis, and I think we can all agree that’s not cool.
All of this is cultural, we didn’t know about the damage of functioning labeling at the time that diagnosis was accepted (or the whole Nazi thing), and so our cultural understanding of the condition has changed.
Understandings of disorder are cultural, not absolute.
The official term in the UK is Asperger’s disorder, although I’ve never heard it actually called that.
No it’s not. From the National Autistic Society:
"Asperger’s syndrome’ (often shortened to Asperger’s) is no longer used as a diagnostic term for autism and is considered controversial due to the history of Hans Asperger, which is summarised below.
Historically, Asperger syndrome was used as a diagnostic term for some autistic people who did not also have a diagnosis of a learning disability. Broadly, it is now agreed that what was referred to as Asperger syndrome is part of the autism spectrum and there is no need for a separate term.
Some people who received a diagnosis of Asperger syndrome continue to use this terminology to refer to themselves. Others do not, usually for two reasons: because the term is no longer used officially; and because of revelations about the Austrian psychiatrist Hans Asperger, who Asperger syndrome was named after and who was complicit with the Nazis."
https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/what-is-autism/the-history-of-autism/asperger-syndrome