In China, It’s Already Cheaper to Buy EVs Than Gasoline Cars::undefined
They are far simpler with fewer parts. It is only a matter of scaling up manufacturing. The biggest cost is the battery.
BYD is closing in on Tesla as the largest EV manufacturer and most Americans have no idea they exist.
I was in China two months ago and the use of electric cars is honestly changing the feeling of big cities. Delivery motorcycles and service vehicles are all electric now, and with the number of electric cars on the road, streets are a lot quieter now barring the frequent honking. Less air pollution too.
What I love about Chinese electric car manufacturers is that they’ve fully embraced the cyberpunk aesthetic from the chassis design to the car sounds. Made me feel like I was walking around a cyberpunk movie set.
There were already tons of ebikes on the streets when I was there in 2016. It was a bit of a problem as a pedestrian as they are super quiet and the practice is to drive those things pretty much without regard for any concept of pedestrian right of way. You learned to be ultra careful crossing any street.
Electric bikes should in theory be much, much faster. Energy density is a problem, tho. Can’t fit much battery in a small frame, so you sacrifice power for range.
Find me a 200hp electric bike that will do 400km on a charge and I’ll be the first in line.
I just got back from a business trip to China also. The high proportion of EVs, particularly in the southern cities like Guangzhou and Shenzhen really stood out to me, and many of them (particularly from BYD) looked really, really nice. They seemed less prominent in the more northern part of the country (e.g. Shenyang, Beijing), but even there I’d say they’re more common than in the UK.
It was a real eye opener
That was my experience as well. Very prevalent in Sichuan, but less so in Shanghai. Still, even in Shanghai, they were leagues ahead of Canada.
I found this article from last year showing some interesting models. You’ll see the most popular EVs range from more classical designs to weird and retro-futuristic.
Some of them also make futuristic noises when they drive around… The noise isn’t needed at all because the motor is pretty much silent, so they’re added by manufacturers so you hear them coming. I swear they sound like something out of a '90s sci-fi flick.
Would be interesting to see. The Chinese EVs being pushed on the market here (Europe) are the typical ugly huge American SUV style.
Yeah, American here. This isn’t a huge mystery. Electric cars here are expensive because people refuse to give up their giant vehicles. American culture is so gross…
What I love about Chinese electric car manufacturers is that they’ve fully embraced the cyberpunk aesthetic from the chassis design to the car sounds.
So, the Vaporwave color pallete?
I’d really like to see more of this. Do you know some of the names of these super cool manufacturers / designs?
Not the OP, but I live in China.
Check out for example the Xpeng (Xiao Peng) G6 and P7, the Qiantu K50, Zeekr 009, Lynk & Co. 03, Aiways U5 and the Dongfeng Mengshi M-Hero 917 (now if that’s not HALO inspired, I don’t know…).
[Comment content deleted by author because apparently I was spouting lies!]
This brake dust problem is not true. Just another in a line of deceiving , sounds right but isn’t, attacks on EVs from the fossil fuel industry and their allies. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2022/02/05/electric-cars-are-as-green-as-you-think-and-dont-produce-more-polluting-particles/?sh=528dfb522811
They’re building buses in California. I drive by this plant on occasion.
I visited the BYD factory years ago. I have no idea how big it is compared to others but it absolutely blew my mind. I was up on like 5th floor and when they sounded the lunch bell it looked like ants out the window. I think they said it was about 600k employees in that building.
Are the US and EU late, or is it a deliberate business decision from EV car manufacturers to aim for bigger and luxury cars because they make more profit?
More than 80 percent of new cars sold in Norway now are EVs.
Which also means that all the talk in the US about EVs not being reliable in cold-weather states is just pure crap from politicians trying to protect oil and the gasoline car industry.
Yup. Car and Driver Debunks Cold Weather EV Myts at most you get a 20% decrease in the efficiency of your charge. And EVs are actually better at staying warm while idle/off.
It depends on a number of factors: outdoor temperature, the model of car, whether climate control is used. At temperatures of an average January daytime high where I live, using climate control, range can decrease by 40% and anecdotally my model is even higher.
Who are the manufacturers building these cars? I’m curious how many are the very same manufacturers we have in the US and where the disparity occurs.
9/10 of the top EVs are also sold in the United States. The only outlier is the Skoda which is basically a Volkswagen.
We’re late. Our competition sucks (almost certainly on purpose). BYD is taking the slow approach to the US market - early next decade? Reuters: BYD Global EV Push
The US car manufacturers are going to take a protectionist approach to a shrinking market. They’ve already won this decade - everybone has a massive truck/SUV, no transit, all cars including EVs are an unaffordable luxury to Americans now after “inflation.”
The US has protectionist rules about EV grants - car must be assembled in the US to receive tax credits. It’s why Teslas sold in the US are assembled in the US whereas Teslas sold in Canada are made in China. There are some comments that the Chinese manufactured cars are actually better quality. It probably also explains why Chinese brands like BYD are focussing more on other markets like Europe.
What are you going on about?
The US car makers (specifically GM and Ford) have been heavily pro-active on the switch to EVs. GM’s Volt and Bolt were the first real entries into going electric-hybrid and then full EVs at a lower-cost mass-produced vehicles. Now GM’s Ultium platform is easily one of the most advanced systems out there and will be the basis for future GM’s full EV cars and trucks for the next few years. It is advanced enough where Honda/Acura are using it for their first real EVs (not counting the 1/2 hearted E which was so overpriced and limited in capabilities that it wasn’t even brought to the US). Honda is so far behind, they had to have someone else design and build their upcoming EV Prolog and ZDX vehicles.
The Japanese carmakers are the ones dragging their feet.
It’s also because, despite subsidies, shipping costs for materials for EVs (and the necessary factory upgrades) are expensive domestically, but this infrastructure already exists, alongside a very willing market that does not have a political identity tied to ICE engines.
A little bit of Bud Light phobia, a little bit of logistics and retooling costs, and a little bit of government subsidies (of both fuel and ICE engines themselves at all steps of production) all comes together to prolong the life of the ICE in the US.
China is subsidizing EV companies crazy hard. They brought musk in with Tesla to steal all his tech and train their workers to do it too. So bonus points for exploiting Elons hubris and ego. He was going to be first American company to be a leader in the Chinese market without them stealing all his tech. Crazy it didn’t work out.
The timeline doesn’t add up. Chinese EV makers, including BYD, were building crazy momentum long before Musk set up shop in Shanghai (which was in 2018). It’s only come to the attention of the outside world in the last couple of years when their EVs started to get exported at scale, but before they’ve been brewing this industry for a long time. BYD shipped its first compact EV domestically in 2009.
Yes, because there’s no way 5 years is enough time to steal technology and manufacturing techniques and distribute them throughout an industry with a web of government industrial spies. They never do this type of thing so it would take 20 years. I’m sure BYD is making cars exactly like they were 5 years ago. Technology moves so slowly.
Oh, a quick search shows of BYD cars shows me their cars up until around that time looked like a cheap kia from the early 2000s and now the new models look weirdly like a Tesla. I’m sure that’s complete coincidence though. China with it’s super strict IP laws and parents should never steal anything.
Tell me you know nothing about Chinese EVs without telling me you know nothing about Chinese EVs. BYD’s best sellers are actually plug-in hybrids, which is in no way “stolen” from Tesla.
Whatever happened to hybrids? Why did we all the sudden decide we need to push for 100% electric nationwide?
Meanwhile where I am in Canada, with massive amounts hydroelectric power: “bUt tHe gRiD!”
The dam electricity has to charge the damn car but the damn grid is inadequate ….
I can believe it. Massachusetts has been try to buy some of that sweet dam Canadian hydro - apparently there is plenty but no damn transmission lines to get it here. And the damn nimbies in Maine and New Hampshirite have no incentive to let us build Dam power lines
Yes and the electric company is handsomely rewarded for providing that service.
You can have infinity watts at the power dam but the grid to and in your town can still have capacity issues.
This should not be hard to understand.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Since Tesla Inc. and Mitsubishi Motors Corp. started developing the first mass-market electric cars in the late 2000s, battery vehicles have struggled with a higher cost structure that even subsidies and manufacturer losses haven’t been sufficient to surmount.
That’s come on the back of a price war, instigated by Tesla, so savage that the government last month induced automakers to sign a pact pledging to compete fairly and refrain from “abnormal pricing.” (The latter commitment was retracted two days later.)
Tesla’s Model 3, which previously retailed at twice the price of comparable premium mid-sized sedans such as the BMW AG 3 Series, is now the more affordable option.
BYD’s Dolphin, likewise, comes in about 5,000 yuan ($693) cheaper than a comparable compact sedan such as Volkswagen AG’s local Jetta variant, the 125,000-yuan Sagitar.
Just three years ago, Deloitte — in a report that was generally extremely bullish about the prospects for EVs — predicted this level wouldn’t be hit until the end of the decade.
Closing that gap has depended on falling costs for batteries, a process that’s been delayed as the commodity price inflation of the past few years pushed up expenditure on raw materials.
The original article contains 873 words, the summary contains 186 words. Saved 79%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
How is their infrastructure for charging?
it’s the only place I know where it’s common to have your whole battery pack swapped out, much quicker than recharging a battery, and leaves the difficult job of battery maintenance up to professionals
I only saw a conceptual video on this but didn’t know it was an actual thing yet. Pretty neat
Complicated, within the city limits is quite good, many malls have charger in their parkings and many solar charger parkings are appearing, however long distance driving is still not ideal (either no charging stations or charging stations are broken), people mainly purchase EVs as backup car.
