Pope Francis condemned the “very strong, organised, reactionary attitude” in the US church and said Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.
Pope Francis has blasted the “backwardness” of some conservatives in the US Catholic Church, saying they have replaced faith with ideology and that a correct understanding of Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.
Francis’ comments were an acknowledgment of the divisions in the US Catholic Church, which has been split between progressives and conservatives who long found support in the doctrinaire papacies of St John Paul II and Benedict XVI, particularly on issues of abortion and same-sex marriage.
Broken clock right twice a day, etc.
I’m in episode 2 out of 4 and so far,
spoiler
It’s about a girl from a family that lived on Vatican grounds who was kidnapped. We know the mob and the Vatican are working together and the pope tried to cover it up. The pope was backing a Polish group that was going after communism in Russia. The US and the pope were on the same side for this one issue. The bank on the Italian side of the Vatican walls were laundering money so the pope could send money to the group that was going after communism. The girl who was kidnapped and probably killed was a warning to the pope that the mafia wanted their money back since the money was supposed to go both ways, but stopped at the Vatican. The last time we have info on the girl is that the mafia dropper her off to a person dressed as a priest.
That’s how I understand it, it’s complicated and they’re going through it as the journalist discovers information. This journalist is amazing and did a deep dive on their finances. I grew up catholic and still think of the religion and a lot of my friends and family as awesome, but that church was corrupt all the way down to the small parishes. The small parishes just did it in a different way.
American conservatives really hate that this pope prioritizes Jesus-y stuff like love, forgiveness, and taking care of your fellow humans.
I have a bunch of Catholic family members that are much more into being angry, fighting to shove dogma down everyone’s throat, and not helping anyone that doesn’t sit in the pew next to them.
I don’t think that’s very fair, he’s been very consistent in his positions from everything I’ve ever heard about the man. He won’t directly come out in support of LGBT, pro-choice, or contraception, but he hints that the church might be on the wrong side of many issues and is very vocal about the message of love and acceptance
Keeping in mind he’s at the helm of a very large ship in a problematic place that likes to split apart, I think it’s understandable that he balances keeping the thing together with steering in a better direction
Now the pos conservatives are gonna start calling the pope woke. 🤣🤣🤣
They’re already doing that, have been for a long time. I have a Baptist coworker who thinks Catholicism isn’t real Christianity…
I had a Catholic coworker who said some of her Catholic relatives were becoming “Christians”, which turned out to mean Evangelicals.
I had a Catholic coworker who said some of her Catholic relatives were becoming “Christians”, which turned out to mean Evangelicals.
in the US they refer to Protestants as “Christians”, mainstream Christianity is made up of Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants
To be fair, it isnt; but then neither is Evangelicism or Mormonism or any of these other wackadoo cults within which these assholes conflate their hatred and fear with faith.
What makes Catholicism fake Christianity in your view? Any faith that believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God that died for the sins of humankind meets the threshold, imo. The Catholic Church fits comfortably within that definition.
I think all religions are just fake copycats of the one true god.
Praise be Flying Spaghetti Monster
Baptist coworker who thinks Catholicism isn’t real Christianity…
I’ve seen a lot of that and not just recently.
All religions think all other religions are not “real”, because of their “There can be only one!” Highlander shit.
It’s hard to imagine now , but Catholics were not considered Christians and it was ok to openly discriminate against them. I know of people fired for that. People still try and convert me to ‘Christianity’ and claim all sorts of stuff.
The KKK and Nixon were vocally against’Papists’
There a whole YouTube channel by some ex fox host called church militant… It’s all about hating gays and lesser religions. They talk shit about the Pope all the time.
It’s like everything in America is just power struggles, selfishness, greed, and crime. There’s no God or respect for life here. The “good guys” don’t even go after the “bad guys” because the bad guys are ahead now. People are so naive here they think heartless crimes are not happening when it’s right under their nose. Sometimes the good guys even get used in the plot. Just look at all the old politicians and Americans that got roped in Rogers stones mob puppeting of Trump. America had a mob affiliate for president. I think that puts in stone… Americas bullshit. It’s going to take decades to get trust and genuine patriotism back.
Time for a reality check on the history of Popeing
You know you fucked up bad when even the Pope is saying, “Whoa, slow it down there with the fascism, bud”.
American Catholics have largely voted Democrat for much of the last century. This flip-flop to voting Republican is relatively recent.
It seems to me to be a bit of a religio-coup. Bishops have some autonomy, and Priests some as well. It’s become increasingly common that both are in opposition to Rome on certain behaviors related to politics, and exactly how strongly they should be pushing people to vote and for what reasons. The dehumanization of Biden (publicly refusing him Eucharist) for his nuanced pro-choice views is in direct contradiction of papal behavior going back at least to the turn of the 20th century. Telling people that in voting, any sin is forgivable except being pro-choice… well, there’s no basis in Canon Law for that attitude.
I live in a very Catholic area, and have a lot of Catholic family. Talking to them, they mention their priests say “you can vote for either party, as long as they’re pro-life”. The Abortion issue is not the only or greatest issue to Rome. It is AN issue, but disagreeing with the Church is generally not going to earn their full enmity unless you are preaching your disagreement. Biden (the target of that local church smear campaign) is absolutely not preaching pro-choice to anyone.
Pope Francis is right to be saying that because American Catholic Leadership has gone WAY astray from what Catholicism allows or mandates of them.
Replacing faith with ideology - so doing things because you think they are right is worse than doing them because god tells you to?
From a believer POV obviously
The whole point of organizing religion is telling people “you are so dumb misguided by the Devil so our scholars gonna tell you how to behave”
In most Christian religions if you don’t explicitly say Jesus died for your sins centuries before you were born, literally nothing else matters.
You can follow every rule because you personally agree with it. But if you don’t submit to Jesus (and by extension your church’s chain of command) then you’re going to hell.
So if you’re just doing what’s right by your personal morals, it doesn’t “count” even if it agrees with church teachings.
Obedience is more important than anything else.
And by the same token, you can torture, kill, and eat people and still go to heaven if you accept Jesus before you die. Jeffrey Dahmer was baptised in prison and apparently that made everything all right.
It’s a bonkers belief system if you think about it. It definitely doesn’t encourage being a good person like it claims to.
So I think that by-and-large, the Evangelicals have had a crisis of faith and are seeking the US Catholic Church as a bastion of stability. And the US Catholic Church has been happy to accept Evangelicals into our flock, because we’re all Christian here and spreading our religion is what we do.
This has become somewhat of a devil’s deal however, as the Evangelicals have pushed the Church extremely rightward politically. Historically, the Catholic Church has been very pro-Latino, because the Hispanic community / immigrants are overwhelmingly Catholic (not just “Christian”, but proper Catholics born and raised). But in the past 10 years or so I’m seeing more and more former-Evangelicals bring their politics into the Catholic tradition.
Nominally, this crap shouldn’t matter to the issues of Church. But it does. Politics infects all wakes of life one way or the other.
In any case, I think its a good thing that (former) Evangelicals have migrated over to the Catholic church in such large numbers that this problem is occurring. And I’m not necessarily saying that we need to ‘indoctrinate’ our (former) Evangelicals to the policies or politics of the Catholics… but… maybe a little bit? I dunno. But a lot of these far-right rhetoric / fire and brimstone style religion (with anti-immigration / anti-Hispanic slants) is distinctly non-Catholic and heretical IMO.
Case in point: we Catholics finally have a 2nd president of our Faith: Joe Biden. And yet, the Catholic community was THIS close to excommunicating him. Rather than celebrate our achievement to get our 2nd president into the office, he is seen as a heretic to (half) of the US Catholic Community.
It’s not like evangelicals are all coming to Mass now: the priest wouldn’t give them communion anyway. Rather, what you describe is a political partnership, based on opposition to abortion, where the Evangelicals and Catholics started raising an assload of money together.
And this is what this is all about, money and political power and clout. And I think that’s what the Pope is objecting to. Catholic doctrine is clear that life begins at conception, and is worthy of protection. But there is so much more to protecting life, at all its stages: education, help for the poor and hungry, assistance for the immigrant, compassion for prisoners (and opposition to the Death Penalty). US Bishops are sacrificing the rest of it at the altar of political power.
The ironic thing is that Protestants outnumber Catholics here. If the US Bishops get the theocracy they are aiming for, it is pretty much guaranteed that these Protestant Evangelicals will be running it. And Catholics will end up marginalized again.
No no no.
I mean I’ve noticed an uptick in Evangelicals properly converting into Catholicism recently. And simultaneously, a sudden surge in people wanting “Latin Mass” and other such very old traditions. Definitely a yearning for “traditional” Religion, and (former) Evangelicals seeking Catholicism because of it.
This is absolutely a “Church” issue because it relates to the religious+political views of our relatively fresh converts (well, within the past couple of decades).
Well, I’ll have to look into this a bit more. I’m quite aware of the Traditionalists, but didn’t realize they were pulling Evangelicals in, somehow.
And simultaneously, a sudden surge in people wanting “Latin Mass” and other such very old traditions.
That’s an AstroTurf movement by conservative priests who want to be able to read the bible, no one understands what they said, then they go on a personal rant and telling them what to think and how to vote…
Mostly because they’re upset the Pope is (relatively) progressive for a pope
Catholic concerts are the most evil people I’ve ever met.
edit: I meant converts but those suck too.
To paraphrase the eternal wisdom of Hank Hill: Christian rock music isn’t making Christianity better, it makes rock music worse
The Catholic Church has actively ran the longest largest worldwide Pedophile ring in human history. For the past 1800 years the Catholic Church recruited, supported, obfuscated, defended, and excused pedophilia, which continues to this day. The fact the Catholic Church still allowed to operate, in any way shape or form, with youth of any kind, in any country, anywhere, means we’ve all purposefully lost the thread.
Beside the Catholic Church being outwardly obviously criminal, and only an extension of the Roman Senate two thousand years on, it’s only shown how very little adults care about the systematic raping of children. Like, at all.
Fuck The Catholic Church. Fuck The Pope.
You really have a point here, but I don’t think Catholic church is the only one in which these gross events happen, the thing is that being one of the largest religion along with Islam they get the most attention and media coverage around the world. It’s just common sense. So yes, there are serious problems in that church, but I bet my ass that they’re not the only ones doing that. Take the blindfold from your eyes, every religion has leaders that abuse the power they have upon its followers to commit deplorable acts.
