There is nothing stopping her making a Voice right now, and showing what it can do. I’m really afriad Linda Burney is in an echo chamber and doesn’t see the massive flaws.
Not sure what you mean by that. How would she go about making a Voice on her own?
Through parliament without a constitutional change. Or by making representation to the government on behalf of the aboriginal and Torres strait Islander peoples independently, as a unified body.
I disagree. I think there are too many competing bodies to have one organically represent all. I think having it in the constitution adds gravitas and says that we as a society and country are listening.
By engaging with the existing representative body that has already been established - The National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA).
It employs 1,023 full time staff and manages a budget of $285M each year specifically for the purpose to “lead and influence change across government to ensure Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have a say in the decisions that affect them.”
https://www.niaa.gov.au/who-we-are/the-agency
True, didn’t know that was a thing. I assume people who are leading the Voice movement don’t find it to be sufficient enough – I wonder why? I suppose because it has no constitutional recognition? But why not use the NIAA as a basis? Would be interesting to learn the reasoning there.
We’ve tried that, the LNP dismantles it the second they get into power.
Are you a constitutional lawyer? If not, then I don’t think you’re qualified to talk about flaws in a constitutional amendment. Instead, listen to the ones who are (who overwhelmingly support it).
It’s not that simple. Each time that an agency was dismantled, it was always replaced by something else. If we were to look at the history:
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission - established by Labor, dismantled by Liberals
Ministerial Taskforce on Indigenous Affairs - established by Liberals, dismantled by Labor
Office of Indigenous Policy Coordination - established by Liberals, dismantled by Labor
National Indigenous Council - established by Liberals, dismantled by Labor
Department of Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs - established by Labor, dismantled by Liberals
Indigenous Advisory Council - established by Liberals and still exists
National Indigenous Australians Agency - established by Liberals and still exists
Looking back through the history, it could be argued that Abbott was responsible for the heaviest dismantling, but it wasn’t really connected to election cycles.
The current structure under the NIAA seems to be the most detailed, transparent, and accountable body that we have had so far. The Corporate Plan and Reconciliation Action Plan are worth a read. It definitely makes you wonder why we need a Voice when the plans, structure, and hierarchy is already in place.
https://www.niaa.gov.au/sites/default/files/publications/niaa-rap-2022-25.pdf
https://www.niaa.gov.au/sites/default/files/publications/niaa-corporate-plan-2022-23_0.pdf
It definitely makes you wonder why we need a Voice when the plans, structure, and hierarchy is already in place.
So that there is a permanent Aboriginal presence in govt that cannot be removed at the whims of the sitting govt. I know the wording says the composition and appointees can be determined by parliament but the body must always be there. The symbolism is the important part. Something visible, not hidden away amongst the various govt departments.
Are you a lawyer? Have you read the actual wording of the Constitution Alteration (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice) 2023?
The proposed amendment says:
In recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of Australia:
i. there shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice;
ii. the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples;
iii. the Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures.
That last paragraph means that the government of the day can still functionaly gut the Voice by altering its “composition, functions, powers and procedures” and then ignoring its representations anyway.
To me the only real value I see is the first paragraph, which formally acknowledges the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders as First Peoples.
Edit: typo, no one will be recognised as “Dirst Peoples”
But what about Durst Peoples?
This constitutional amendment doesn’t do anything to prevent the Coalition dismantling it. There’s zero detail of its makeup, other than the existence of something called “The Voice”. If he had control in both houses, Dutton could simply redefine “The Voice” as being the Minister for Indigenous Affairs, and disband everything else.
You can’t say “it’s so important that it can’t be left up to the government of the day to legislate it”, but when people ask “where’s the detail?” the answer is “the detail isn’t in the amendment because the government of the day will legislate it”.
If it was anything more than an advisory body no one would ever get it to pass a referendum. If they skipped the constitution by legislating something with more teeth than it currently is the Coalition would spend now until election time campaigning against it about how it was “forced” on people instead of it being a referendum.
I think she’s right, it’s a fair and practical move. Not sure if I’d say that all No campaigns for the Uluru Statement use Trump-style politics like she says, but the Fair Australia one is certainly weak and uses the “pointing out racism creates division” thing that anti-CRT Americans like to use so much.
To be bluntly honest, if Lidia Thorpe is against it, it’s probably a good move.
i mean, she raises valid concerns, but on balance they don’t outweigh the net gain. I’m reticent to just dismiss her concerns as they kind of highlight why this is so vital, the cultural cynicism and distrust in Australian politics takes on a far more visceral and personal bent for Indigenous Australians after all(rightly so).
Why not support the voice?
The ‘Progressive No’ movement has pretty valid reasons to be against it, though as a non-Indigenous Australian I find it very difficult to consider voting no myself. The fact that I actually get to vote on this is honestly ridiculous, particularly when my vote is worth twice that of someone who it is supposed to be benefiting.
I mean, the fact that Dutton is supporting No would be enough reason for me to vote Yes
Edit: I am not saying this is the only reason. I very much believe that the first nations peoples should have a Voice
Voting because someone else does or doesn’t vote this way or that is sport not politics. I would hope that most people take it far more seriously.
What do you mean by your ‘vote is worth twice that of someone who it is supposed to be benefiting’?
Is that in reference to the ‘double-majority’, where NT and ACT don’t count for the ‘majority of States’ count (because a large number of Aboriginal and Torrest Strait islander people live in the NT)?
Yes, that’s correct. I live in SA, so my vote counts towards both majorities. Technically there are more Indigenous Australians living in the states than the territories (according to the ABS), but the NT is where a lot of the remaining Indigenous communities (who government “help” is usually targeted towards) reside.
Either the Voice is successfully implemented and ends up being an utterly useless and expensive waste of time with no practical benefit, or it is not successfully implemented and it ends up being an utterly useless and expensive waste of time with no practical benefit.
I can’t wait for this nonsense to be over.
