I’ll start! There was a lot of absolutist rhetoric there that said things along the lines of “All Christians are terrible, horrible, no good, very bad people!” I think a little nuance is in order, no?
Provide rules that require religious tolerance, while still allowing respectful criticisms of said religions.
Basically just avoiding the edge lord/ hate speech stuff.
Over at /r/nihilism we always had a similar issue.
Any posts that are critical of religion should be fact based and impartial as possible. Sources should be required.
As an example:
Posting a rant about how how you don’t like Islam: [deleted]
Posting a link to a news article about the statistical rate of s**ual harassment in the catholic church: “A+”
(Just examples)
All that being said, I think we should more focus on how to live our lives positively and effectively. A lot of people perseve atheists as having no motivations/ being unreliable. I think we should try to overcome that image by focusing on progressing our own “beliefs”, and spreading our message: “Life is what you make it.”
We should also strive to be a safe place for recent refugees of different religious backgrounds. Not only should we be a place of open discussion and critical thinking, but a place of support and recovery. That’s more my opinion, though.
I would love to see posts like:
“Tips on staying positive after recently losing your faith”
“Rebuilding a social network after cutting ties with toxic family”
“How to come out to your religious family as atheist”
“I recently came out as atheist and my family disowned me, what should I do?”
“What are some good movies you’d suggest for an atheist?”
“Here is some art I made as a social commentary on religion”
“Making eye contact during prayer”
Etc…
Seconded.
I personally have adopted an “as long as it’s not hurting anyone” view of religions for individuals and smaller local groups, but I recognize that there’s a lot of factual hurtfulness that goes on systemically. That inherently will try and make this community devolve into intolerance, so there’s a tricky balance of moderating intolerance and welcoming open conversations that I don’t have the answer to.
One thing to keep in mind is that some people are anti religion due to experience. There are a lot of religions that ARE hurting someone by fly under the radar.
For example, I always see people say Lutherans are chill. Look up LCMS, it’s a literal cult. I grew up in it. There is a lot of abuse prevalent in it, ie teaching you how to hit your kid “correctly”.
But then people who speak up about it are labeled as “intolerant” or “edgelords” because “but everyone else told me Lutherans don’t hurt anybody!”
And even beyond that, there can always be specific churches within religions or denominations that are seen as “okay” that are abusing their power to hurt others. I am not going to go out and attack religious people or anything, but I’m also not about to be neutral on the subject when I know it opens up a world of potential abuse.
I am very against requiring religious tolerance, abuse victims require a place at the table.
That’s a very good point that people’s personal abuses play a key role in the intolerance of religion.
It’s a very blurry line between enabling detriment via tolerance, and disabling an inclusive discussion environment via intolerance. And, I’m not sure where that line could be well defined.
If this Atheist community would be prone to being more tolerant, perhaps there could be forums specifically for ex members of different beliefs. For example, I know there was an Ex-Mormon community on Reddit.
there’s a tricky balance of moderating intolerance and welcoming open conversations
Where does not tolerating religiously motivated hatred and intolerance fit into that framework?
I would classify that as harmfulness that should not be tolerated. However only at an appropriate level of generalization.
Articles about an individual going extremist should be met with disappointment in the individual, and disappointment in a system that would foster that extremism. But to call the whole religion a group of extremists would be too far.
This will definitely be too much to ask, but if we didn’t have regular “why are you an atheist?” threads like r/atheism had every single fucking day, that would be lovely.
I was happy with r/atheism. A lot of good people. We had some I didn’t agree with, but that is ok. I’m sure we’ll be the same here.
Welcome to the internet.
Maybe a greater respect for the biological reality of limbic needs. People who are religious aren’t automatically morons for simply being religious. Spirituality is an essential part of what makes us humans. So, perhaps we could do better to vocalize that respect, while still addressing the specific truth claims.
Also, helping believers ask their own questions without attacking the fact they’ve been led to believe something would go miles further in helping them develop critical thinking skills.
Insults only drive people deeper into superstition and fundamentalism.
EDIT: Check out “Street Epistemology” on YouTube for what (in my subjective opinion) seems to be the most efficient way to help people think through their beliefs.
EDIT 2: It seems we may be defining spirituality differently. I am NOT talking about supernatural beliefs. I’m talking about an emotional sense of connection to something bigger than oneself. The things managed mainly in the midbrain, especially through the limbic system. Spirituality =/= superstition, though the latter has become deeply entrenched in popular spiritual pursuits.
EDIT 3: “Something bigger than oneself” = Any natural system of which you are a subcomponent.
I read that to mean “Spirituality is an essential part of [human history, and is still prevalent today in most cultures].” In other words, it’s an inseparable aspect of humanity. Just as erring is human.
No I knew what you meant, I just would like to see where you’re getting that idea from
Not to sound adversarial, that’s not at all my intention. But you can’t just say common human desires are a conditional requirement for humanity without strong evidence to back it up.
I could just as easily say “Wanderlust is an essential part of what makes us human. Everyone needs to travel the world and connect with new places and cultures. It’s ‘cause of the way our brain is”. Many people want to travel, yes, but is the way I phrased that correct? Can I prove that?
But either way, I agree with the spirit (hah) of what you’re saying, just feel like that’s a weird angle
Spirituality is an essential part of what makes us humans.
I guess I’m not a human.
I’m talking about an emotional sense of connection to something bigger than oneself.
Still sounds like I’m not a human to you…
Lol. Holy shit the replies to this…
Slow your roll, everyone. Maybe don’t grab onto the ‘Spirituality is an essential part…’ so fervently. If it doesn’t apply to you, good for you! Sure, it was worded in a way that made it sound like it was applying to all humans, but the sentiment of the post was a plea for a bit of grace when dealing with people coming to terms with religion. No need to be so dang pedantic.
No, ‘spirituality’ isn’t vital for human flourishing, but it’d be folly to say that it isn’t an important dimension of human experience. Just not ALL humans, and certainly fewer now than in decades past.
I see spirituality as similar to sexuality: wildly popular across and entwined with every culture for obvious biological/social reasons, but just as I don’t see asexuals as being less involved in the “human experience”, I don’t see spirituality as essential to humanity.
“I am NOT talking about supernatural beliefs. I’m talking about an emotional sense of connection to something bigger than oneself. The things managed mainly in the midbrain, especially through the limbic system. Spirituality =/= superstition, though the latter has become deeply entrenched in popular spiritual pursuits.”
How is this definition distinct from, say, feeling a sense of connection to one’s community? Neighborhood? Political party? Those are distinctly real things, no superstition required, but I don’t think you’d say that someone canvassing for a governor’s race is spiritual.
As lurker, I felt it was more doom, and watching the decline of civilization by the Christian fascist. And sadly those are clearly issues to be concerned about.
I think this community is starting to wake up and realize it’s not a small fringe part of society but a growing part of the soon to majority.
Now is the time to have discussions on what issues most concern the group and how to we proceed. Stop being “independent” or in the side line but register for a political party and start effecting change.
Steps off soap box
TST news is good shrugs
