Hello everyone! If you have not yet seen it, @ernest has handed over moderation to @Drusas @Entropywins @ Frog-Brawler (the tag system consistently messes up the link to FB’s username lol) and myself here in !politics.
First order of business is for you all to weigh in on the community guidelines that you would like to see here. As the mod team, we will weigh all suggestions and then add them to the side bar as magazine/community rules. I’m going to give about 48 hours for users to see this thread and add a comment or discuss.
Please know that the goal is not to create an echo chamber here in !politics, but we want to ensure that there is not an encroachment of rage bait and toxicity. It brings down the quality of the magazine and it discourages community engagement.
For the time being, the mod tools are pretty sparse, so I want to manage expectations about the scope of moderation we’re able to do right now. For now, our touch will be light. Expect increased functionality as time progresses, though. We have 3 weeks of reports on file, so please know we see them. Give us some time to establish how to handle those before you start to see any movement.
My first question is always going to be, what is the moderation policy for Nazi’s/white supremacists/fascists?
Are you adopting a zero tolerance policy for that sort of rabble rousing trash, the iamragesparkle method, or are you going to say your hands are tied unless they blatantly violate the community guidelines?
(transcribed from a series of tweets) - @iamragesparkle
I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, “no. get out.”
And the dude next to me says, “hey i’m not doing anything, i’m a paying customer.” and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, “out. now.” and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed
Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, “you didn’t see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them.”
And i was like, ohok and he continues.
"you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it’s always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don’t want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.
And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it’s too late because they’re entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.
And i was like, ‘oh damn.’ and he said “yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people.”
And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven’t forgotten that at all.
I meant to reply yesterday but I got distracted. I have a pretty large bias against nazis / white supremacists and fascists. Unfortunately, on the fediverse, we’re not going to be able to “out now!” them at the door, simply because we’re not going to be able to tell if they’re sitting behind their keyboard (or phone) wearing a vest with iron crosses, nor will we be able to tell if they have either red or white laces in their Doc Martens.
I think that posting content (or in support of content) that falls into the categories you mentioned should equate to getting the boot though.
I have seen enough users actively combat alt-right content here that I’m happy to swing the ban hammer on neo-Nazi and pro-white supremacy content.
What I don’t want to create is an echo chamber that only permits the views of people I agree with.
I say this with all sincerity: as a progressive, we need genuine and legitimate leadership to step up and start governing again in the GOP. We don’t need people who were once too awful to embrace getting a redemption arc (a la Mitt Romney and Liz Cheney style), but real and serious political leaders. I would like this magazine to be a place to stay informed about the moves and leadership on the right that are worth building bridges with.
And as much as I hate the entire MAGA crowd, we still need to be informed of their movements and goings on. So I’m not willing to draw the line at no right wing content from right wing sources ever. But I happily draw the line at no neo-Nazi or white supremacy sympathizing.
I’m for a fair amount of leniency when everyone is being civil, but the line needs to be a bit left of card carrying Nazi.
Anyone advocating against human rights should be banned, because such debates are not fruitful. For example, some of the rhetoric around exterminating the homeless in Fox news has no place here.
Fwiw, I think the fediverse gives bans far less weight. A safe and informative community with a range of opinions on how to improve things should be the goal, and mods should be bam happy to get there.
What I don’t want to create is an echo chamber that only permits the views of people I agree with.
I’m confused.
Do you think I was asking for that?
If so, why?
But I happily draw the line at no neo-Nazi or white supremacy sympathizing.
We seem to be in the same ballpark, I just use stronger language about it.
I didn’t think you were asking for an echo chamber. I added that information to add some transparency so that members of this community may understand more on my perspective and get to know my philosophy a bit more. I wasn’t reacting directly to you by saying that.
I want to be sensitive to outside perspectives (not yours) who may be seeing this dialogue as a witch hunt for them because of my own personal foibles and emotive reactions to their positions on politics, hence all this - what is apparently coming across as - softer language.
Please know, in my heart, I’m more Malcolm X than MLK.
This sort of question is why this thread was created. I’m in favor of a zero tolerance policy for fascism, bigotry, and anything that is clearly misinformation. But that’s my personal opinion and we’ll all be working together to decide on what the community wants and what works best. Rules can also be altered as we grow, of course, if our initial guidelines aren’t sufficient.
Obviously I’m 100% in the camp of “you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people.”
Sadly I joined this conversation late, so we will see if others filter in.
I’m very curious as to what sort of community the fedaverse as a whole has cultivated after the reddit exodus.
I don’t disagree, based on the harm that is being done. You may see me comment in that regard, but if moderation rules end up being more lenient than I am personally, based on feedback, that’s what I’ll do as a moderator. It’s about what the community wants and needs in order for genuine discussion to thrive.
I’d say the biggest ones for me are:
- Be civil
- Be on topic (that’s probably a thread on its own to define what that should be)
- No editorializing/opinion/commentary in title or post body (save it for the comments)
These are okay, with the exception of giving commentary in the post body. Commentary in the post body might be a good way to tell why you think this could be especially important.
I think that can still be done in a follow up comment.
Some reasons why I suggested the rule:
- It can anchor the whole discussion and responses to OP commentary need to be made at top level. i.e., discussion may become centered around the commentary instead of the article. Especially on potentially polarizing topics.
- If I have a different commentary to give than OP, should I resubmit the article with a different editorial?
- Up/downvotes will be on the quality/merit of the article and not combined with the opinion of the submitter.
- If the commentary doesn’t fit within other rules, then the whole post needs to be removed and the article re-submitted.
- Any commentary can always be done in the comments, so we’re not really taking anything away.
As we collectively discuss this and come to a conclusion that most of us feel a sense of ownership over, I just want to state point blank that I do not want to see duplicate posts with the same link just because two users have opposite viewpoints on the ramifications of the news.
However, I’m fine with one poster giving CNN’s article on a newsworthy event and another user posting the Associated Press’s article of the same event. Those two news sources (among others) will have different perspectives, voices, and information. That lends itself to robust community engagement, to me.
I’ll piggy back on your response here to add in that I would prefer that posters copy and paste the nut graf of the news story into the body of the post.
“Nut graf” is a journalism term for the paragraph that clearly delineates what the article is about. It’s what makes the piece newsworthy. “The paragraph that explains the story in a nutshell.” The nut graf usually appears in the first three grafs of any current events piece.
I think if this is included in the body text (willing to invite more than just this paragraph, but bare minimum this graf), then readers can determine if the larger piece is worth their time to read or important.
I completely agree with this one. I do this out of habit and didn’t even think to suggest it.
I think it’s important since headlines are often just clickbait and the nut graf can cut through some if that to help you decide if you want to click through to the article.
The few times I’ve tried posting article links, kbin automatically copied the first X words of the article into the post body. I don’t suppose that includes the Nut graf?
Some forms of humor including unmarked sarcasm (may be akin to light trolling) should be allowed.
Side note: It looks like the italics markup on kbin is actually underlining for other platforms.
Thanks for sharing that bit about italics. I hadn’t realized and have been using italics myself. Do you know if bolding is working properly?
To start, I would like to link this graphic to the community guidelines to illustrate where the cutoff is between heated debate and inappropriate bickering.
If it were up to be, I’d draw the line at Contradiction, if you’re trying to cultivate a serious magazine for thinkers.
What’s the line you’d draw if I’m trying to cultivate a clown college magazine for trolls? Hehehe (saaaarcasm)
I would just emphasize the need for respect in our conversations. That seems pretty important to me.
