Prior to the protest reddit was in full support of the protest. Most polls on subs supported a shutdown. Now, seemingly every community cant understand why the protest was needed and they’re calling it a mod power trip. There is a 3rd possibility. This is an unfounded conspiracy but reddit themselves could be manipulating scores.
See the NFL thread if you don’t mind sending traffic
https://reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/14b11kh/were_just_here_so_we_dont_get_fined/
I’ve been on reddit for 13 years. My wife finally got an account last year. She cannot understand any of the fuss. She didn’t know there were apps outside the official app. She never used RES. She just scrolls and never comments or posts. I would be surprised if she even upvotes or downvotes. She’s not a monster, she just doesn’t reddit like I do.
95% of users are like my wife. 5% of users are like me. I haven’t even tried to explain this whole Lemmy/Kbin experiment to her yet.
But the thing is, if 50% of the 5% of us who are active posters (e.g., 2.5% of total users) are now over here on Kbin/Lemmy, the 95% who are left are going to notice a huge difference in the experience of the site. Conversations will be dull. New posts will be more ad-focused. They may not be able to explain what happened, but they will notice that Reddit is not as fun as it used to be.
Will this stop spez from getting stupid rich? Probably not. Will my wife switch to Lemmy or Kbin? Never gonna happen. But the people who want to be part of the old culture will find their way here. The stuff that made reddit great is already happening over here. Reddint will not die anytime soon, but it will cease to be relevant. Think of how long yahoo lasted even though no one cared about it. Reddit is going to be like that.
I haven’t yet deleted my reddit account. It will probably happen. But I also haven’t missed it. I’ve actually been excited to come over and see what’s happening every day in the fediverse! I’m posting more, and considering modding for the first time.
I pretty much agree with this. If you look at the accounts of the people complaining, how many of them have posts hitting the frontpage? I’m not saying I have any data, I’m just speculating that most people who are power users, whether they use 3rd party apps or not, can recognize how shitty reddit went about this and won’t complain about the protest.
Helps that to a certain extent a fairly large portion are going to be at least moderately tech savvy (probably less so than 5+ years ago), so switching to the fediverse is a lot less daunting to them than to the average user.
Probably all the users who like me used old Reddit and apps. Those that joined recently only know the Reddit official app and don’t care
I mean your not lying. On Mastodon I saw posts about people deleting accounts with thousands of karma, lot’s of people with positive reputation in their communities left, and the people who remained either are not active posters or don’t really care.
I mean most posts on the fediverse have way less votes. But I see similarly many comments as I used to see on reddit. It just feels like reddit is here now.
Stronger evidence: there’s documented cases of people’s deleted comments being restored. Whether or not that’s intentional by reddit, I can’t say for certain, but if I were a betting woman, you bet I’d bet on them doing it on purpose. And if they are, then we’re talking about reddit losing a substantial enough amount of content just from people deleting their accounts in protest, substantial enough to impact their bottom line. And that’s just those of us who are deleting our content - I’m not among them since I still need to occasionally look at my saved posts since there’s important and useful information in there. They’ll stop getting content from way more people. That’s gotta terrify them.
Obviously the fediverse lacks a lot of the polish that reddit had. Mostly by virtue of reddit being around longer and having more developers - lemmy’s had like 2 developers for 4 years, kbin came out a few months ago, and I’m not sure about mastodon. But with time, that’ll change. A lot of reddit power users are programmers, and now that they can touch the code of the site they care about, I bet we’ll see a lot more polish in the coming months. I’ve certainly gotta get off my ass and dig into the code a little bit.
I wouldn’t call myself a power user, or even an especially good programmer, but I have my moments, and I feel more at home here than I’ve felt on reddit in years.
Same. I’ve been redditing since 2012 and have tailor made a select group of subs I follow for all of my hobbies. I was an avid commenter, with reply’s as long as your own. It was definitely my most visited site. It was as much for stupid pictures when I was going to bed as it was discussing things with fellow collectors or getting advice or tech support. Old.Reddit on my Desktop, RIF on my phone. I am one of the people this hooplah affects. And it makes me mad.
I know a lot of people who reddit in real life, but most of them might use it for 10 minutes a day on the toilet or while on the bus. They primarily lurk and stick to a lot of the easily accessible and fun subs. They also just use the official App, or they just look at it in their phone browser. Like you said, this whole thing doesn’t affect most of them.
I’m now spending a lot of time trying to find new communities in kbin and lemmy. But I have to admit the specialty subs I follow either don’t have a community here (like Moon Knight stuff) or very small communities (functional print, comic book collecting, etc). I’m sticking to the protest as long as makes sense to me (it still does). But I have a feeling reddit might die before these niche communities find purchase elsewhere.
Almost exactly same situation as you. I’m mad, it hurts, I’ve already purged my Reddit account of all content on it, multiple times since the most recent posts kept getting restored. The account itself isn’t deleted yet, I still think I’ll keep coming back for some stuff that just isn’t here on Lemmy or kbin yet… But as for participating in discussions and communities, I’m now 100% here.
It’s just sad. I’ve met the majority of my current online friend group that I chat with everyday on Discord, through Reddit. I hope at some point that becomes a real possibility in the Fediverse too. That we gather enough weirdos that are way too much into niche things that you can select which of them you’d like to be friends with.
Even if I’m not totally off of Reddit, recent events got me out of a rut for a bit and that’s good. Already, the threads on Reddit/all seem stale and even in the past 24 hours what I see on kbin and lemmy.world is starting to give me the tingle I hadn’t felt since the early Reddit days or even the period before when I used to browse multiple sites so in a way this is going back to my Internet roots, surfing across multiple sites for nuggets and truly browsing and not doom scrolling a single website aggregator. It’s a breath of fresh air.
It’s like having gotten used to a favorite diner with a massive menu but when the classic joint starts going off the rails, one decides to explore, finding new culinary niches, pop ups, and little shops with unique offerings. It’s no longer as convenient, but then again, maybe it shouldn’t be.
I’ve hard avoided Reddit this week to break the habit and help keep traffic numbers down for their metrics. Will I return to some of my small subs later? Maybe. Kbin and Lemmy have already done a great job at providing more content than I can really engage with already, so there’s not a huge need for me to go back. The only time it’s a struggle is when the Kbin servers are hugged to death, but I’ve been lurking squabbles during those dark times.
Yep this is the truth. The vast majority of users just go there and scroll and click through stuff. They don’t really care. They were inconvenienced by the blackout and want it back to normal.
The real consequences are that a significant chunk of the active and power users have left the site now.
I haven’t deleted my reddit account either. I have definitely noticed that my feed on reddit has less interesting content now.
So in other words reddit’s conversations will become as dull as Facebook.
95% of users are like my wife. 5% of users are like me.
This is a pretty broad assumption.
It’s well known that most social media, and very much so for Reddit, are primarily consumed by lurkers. There’s loads of daily users that don’t even have an account because it’s not necessary. The lurkers may be good for ad revenue, but they don’t make the content. You need the active community there to produce the content that lurkers consume. Without the community, the lurkers aren’t going to step in and do it themselves, they’ll just stop visiting Reddit. So yes, I’m sure the balance looks like 95% lurkers and 5% community.
think of it this way - back in 2008 100% of the users had accounts made on or before 2008
reddit has doubled something like 8 times since that point. after 1 doubling, that 2008 or earlier becomes 50%. after 2 doublings, 25%… etc
at this point it’s below 1~2% depending on where you get your figures
majority of people (and an increasing majority) will only know reddit through new.reddit or the app. my gf just joined reddit because of me a few months ago… and she only know the official app. that is “reddit” to her.
reddit has moved on past us, the original users. they’ve decided that we are such a small minority that we essentially do not matter anymore and therefore are sacrificing us to raise IPO price
It’s not only the original users that are against all these changes. I only started on Reddit <10 years ago and I’m here. But I’m sure the portion of new users embracing “the old ways” over “the new ways” has still decreased over time, yeah.
I honestly think this is shining a massive light on the core issue of freedom. It shouldn’t be “sure, you can use [the app] or not.” But that is how the majority of people think. It’s disheartening. I hate to bring politics into this, but it’s like people saying “don’t like what [party X] is doing in this country? Then leave!” Binary decisions suck in real life.
She’s not a monster, she just doesn’t reddit like I do.
The way you need to precise she’s not a monster make me doubt it. Does she live by night, avoid the sun at all cost during daytime and drink children blood for dinner ? If so I have bad news.
on a more serious note, I agree that most people come on reddit for a little giggle or to spend time but don’t know that much about the backend of it. Eventually they find out after some time and then decide if they care or not about the api price change, in the meantime no one can blame them for just living their life without caring about reddit.
While it’s possible that Reddit could be rigging the scales, I think the simplest answer is that the people most critical of Reddit have already left Reddit. Vice versa, everyone here is clearly in favor of boycotting Reddit because well… we’re here now.
Its a classic case of people having no fucking clue about scale, bias, the vocal majority and silent minority.
For every loud reddit dissident, there is 100 people who just heard about reddit and grabbed the official app from the store. They dont comment, they dont post, they dont give a shit. If reddit went down they wouldnt question it, they would just grab a 9gag app or something and continue on consuming content. They dont block ads, they dont get invested in net neutrality or anything else the EFF are involved in, they dont mod the UX, they dont dig into dodgy shit going on behind the scenes. They dont give a shit.
In other words, they are the perfect community for a corporate social media.
I’m interested to see what happens when the third party apps actually die. And old.reddit.com obviously
I read somewhere that a shim was being developed to allow reddit apps to join a lemmy instance. Not sure how practical it would be, or how far off it is, but its an interesting idea. Would obviously need to be implemented by the original reddit app dev, or a forked version if open source.
I imagine at least a couple of developers will migrate over here. If they update their app to the fediverse, join in on other open source projects, or just leave the scene is yet to be seen though.
My partner still hasn’t left Reddit yet, but because it’s a habit for her now AND Apollo still works… once Apollo is gone she’s already signaled she is moving on.
I wonder how many others are just waiting for the third party’s to be killed before moving on?
i use RIF and old.reddit with RES and have been doing so for almost a decade at this point. if RIF is gone, I’m not using reddit on my phone anymore. maybe i continue using the website… i’m not sure. but i think they will eventually kill old.reddit and RES just like they are killing RIF
essentially it’s probably gonna be my last 2 weeks on reddit
My wife hasn’t left either but she’s a once a week lurker anyway. Just hits up the drama subs for a quick hit of bullshit and then moves back to Facebook for some more drama dosing. She knows about all of this, but the drama subs like TIFU are already fully populated over there with content, so there’s no desire to see cat pics on Lemmy.
I mean the truth is 95% of redditors didn’t use apps and don’t care about this at all.
It’s like if your local street had a protest for sheep shearing, preventing you from going to the park or movies. It’s irrelevant to you and the large majority would want it over.
No it’s not like that.
It’s like the people keeping your city clean can no longer use tools and have to use their bare hands unless they pay a bunch of money. That’s what it’s like. Sure for a while it will be ok, but the shit will build up, it will get worse and worse, and the city you once loved will be a shit hole of trash. The workers are literally protesting to have better tools and access to keep your city clean, and you’re saying it doesn’t matter. OH BY THE WAY THE WORKERS DON’T GET PAID.
I would have thought most people would be using an app. Most people access the Internet through their phone.
Yeah, I’m not buying Reddit’s statistics. 90%+ of mod actions on desktop web and official app? I can see plenty of use for old Reddit, but they have locked quite a few mod actions behind the new interface recently. Likewise the more and more spez feels the need to mention that there was no real consequence from the blackout makes me question the validity of that statement. We’re all aware what a lying jackass he is.
I’m sure that the majority of people will continue to use Reddit regardless. I’m just not sure that the majority is as major as they are presenting it to be.
I think a lot of mods probably use RES on desktop, which will still be functional after this. But yeah, statistics say that 3PA are only used by about 5-10% of users
Honestly, I mostly used desktop and the official app sometimes (mostly while I was watching TV, like right now). I don’t think I’d realized there were third party apps, otherwise I would have been using one before all this mess.
As a moderator of a small subreddit, when I checked roughly 75% of our traffic was from mobile. It doesn’t distinguish beyond that but the mobile browser experience is so shockingly bad I think it’s safe to say that is almost entirely app usage. Since there is only official app & Apollo on iOS, that means it’s one of those two… but the way Huffman tells it, Apollo has less than 5% of the install base of the official app on iOS. If that’s the case I don’t really understand his argument that they’re bleeding Reddit dry. But that’s a separate issue.
But, based on the responses we had before the blackout and the responses we got in the last few days “after” in the discussions around opening back up, I can say he appears to be right. Most people just want to use the main app, don’t want to learn anything about third party apps, don’t care why they exist, just want everyone to shut up and move on.
I did find the total 180 very odd. Vote was overwhelmingly in favor of the protest beforehand. Overwhelmingly in favor of going back to normal after. But it was different people. And it wasn’t just random one-week-old accounts that had never posted on the sub before, it was regulars, old accounts, or both, both times.
I’m proud of the properly big subs for continuing their protests. Our community was not strong enough.
Can back up those splits, top 5% sub. Majority is on mobile, but stats on platform are difficult to estimate. It would seem that at least 10% of Android is on 3rd party apps. The downloads don’t give accurate estimates at the top end (10 mil downloads, then it won’t change until 100mil downloads, so you could be off by tens of millions), it doesn’t count side loaded apks, and it doesn’t specify usage time. There could be a ton of people who downloaded the official app, then moved to 3rd party, and they would count for official download.
but the way Huffman tells it, Apollo has less than 5% of the install base of the official app on iOS. If that’s the case I don’t really understand his argument that they’re bleeding Reddit dry.
I saw this as an explanation, and it’s so stupid it makes perfect sense
Yeah but they are probably using the original reddit app. The people that used sync, Apollo or reddit is fun were mad.
The official app, not the original. The 3rd parry app scene did well because reddit didnt offer anything official until really late.
I would agree but many sub reddits had polls before locking and the majority were always in favor.
One thing to keep in mind is that there is an active minority of users who are content generators who are much more likely to vote on stuff like that. Then there are a ton of mostly silent read-only users (most of whom don’t even have accounts). If you inconvenience the mostly silent users who are just there for cat pics on their lunch break, some of them will suddenly put in the effort to complain. But they’ll never build a community, you need the active users for that.
I think the only people left heavily skew as the people who didn’t care. Case in point, the discord for my kebble sub saw a LOT of new members as those who didn’t like the way reddit was handling it prepared other ways to contact each other. That was and still is very much in favor of the protest and they’re still working out a platform to move everyone to.
The actual reddit sub for the kebble has turned on a DIME about it and is now infighting between the people who do care and are only using reddit so they can speak in that particular sub, and the ones that never cared in the first place and think the act of protesting anything in general is, and I quote, “childish.” Were an outsider to scroll through it, they would think we never supported it in the first place.
Before this, we were uncommonly civil towards each other, took as much text as we wanted to eplain our viewpoints properly, and usage of the downvote button was both frowned upon and extremely rare to even see. Now I’m seeing downvotes. The whole thing is causing a schism that doesn’t bode well for the site in general. This will be reddit’s main userbase going forward.
Quite disappointing isn’t it, I kinda wish that in preparation for the blackout an alternative forum was opened for popular subs (on the federation for example) so the community had somewhere to go instead of being annoyed at the lack of interaction
Unfortunately it’s a fairly common pattern among humans, people don’t prepare ahead of time for disasters that have “never happened before.” Or that haven’t happened in their lifetime. Especially when those preparations cost them something, be it time or money or effort.
It’s been long enough since Digg that this generation didn’t believe that it would happen to Reddit too. Maybe someday it might happen to the Fediverse, somehow - there’s only so much you can do with protocol design alone to proof against centralization, we’re already seeing some interesting cracks around the Beehaw defederation mess.
That would have made any kind of sense. They wouldn’t have gone a route that threatened immediate mutiny, I think, because the initial point was to get Spez’s attention, not to leave. For all the good anyone thought that was going to do in the face of an OpenAI amount of money.
From what I hear, all attempts to decide on a destination on the mod discord have fractured into a billion pieces. Which I guess isn’t surprising. If you know about anywhere else at all, you already probably have something set up there and would be averse to abandoning it in favor of someone else’s idea
I assume it’s just a biased sample size? The people left on Reddit are the people that don’t support the blackout. The people that do care are here instead.