Guns also mostly end up harming the owner, but with a side effect of death, unlike the stun gun. Immediate Google results shows stun guns to be about 90% effective, which I’ll take over your anecdote.

It’s a false equivalence in this context which you keep ignoring. The question is about a place that explicitly doesn’t allow guns. Again, to make the equivalence work you have to compare me walking on a road that doesn’t allow cars to me walking on one that does, and obviously I feel safer on the one that doesn’t, even if someone can break the rules and bring a car.

I’ve been punched before, complete blind violence. The difference is that being punched didn’t kill me. The fear of getting shot in America is not irrational. Again refer to the page full of statistics in my previous comment.

None of what you just said is true. Starting here

Just to be clear, walking into a room that has a gun in it doesn’t magically make you more likely to get shot.

That’s nonsense, obviously there’s an increased probability with strict causation between being around guns and getting shot.

If you’re in a place where legal gun owners are, and where illegal gun owners are unlikely to be (or at least unlikely to cause problems in)

You seem to be pretending that “good guys with guns deter bad guys with guns”. I invite you to provide any source that backs this up. This is an American myth, and from outside it’s obvious that the presence of “good guys” with guns just make the criminal elements more likely to arm themselves. It also is increasingly obvious that a very large portion of the self proclaimed good guys are in fact also bad people just itching for an excuse.

Ok, I don’t agree, it should be up to and including the amount of force necessary to incapacitate whoever is threatening your life. Stun gun and handcuffs yes, handgun no.

Btw the way you drew a false comparison between my argument and road safety is called false equivalence and is an informal fallacy, while we’re discussing each other’s debating techniques rather than addressing the points made.

You’ve done your division twice there, it seems. The ~45000 is the number after you take away the suicides.. So pretty much 1/2000, so I guess I was pretty close.

Of course the only correct number of gun deaths among civilians is 0, do you disagree with that? As for your comparison to vehicular deaths, let’s remember the context here. The question is whether or not I feel safer in a place that doesn’t allow guns or one that does. So you should really be asking if I think it’s better to walk on the sidewalk or in the road shared with cars. Of course I might still get hit by a car on the sidewalk, but where would you feel safer?

Don’t know why you were down dooted, that’s absolutely true and exactly how I feel, and how everyone I’ve talked to about copilot feels.

The question was whether or not a sign saying guns not allowed at a mall would make me feel more safe there. I would see them, I might bump into them, it’s a mall. The argument that most of them are sane and reasonable doesn’t reassure me much when we’re talking about people with a magic kill button.

Look are you really trying to argue that the amount of people with guns in my vicinity is irrelevant to my chances of getting shot?

Fair enough, though a person with a gun is much more likely to shoot me than a person without a gun. Any measure to reduce the amount of people in my vicinity carrying guns has my full support. If 1/1000 (number pulled out of my ass obviously) gun owners end up shooing someone, and you reduce the amount of people around me carrying guns from 1000 to 10, you’ve just dramatically increased my statistical probability of living a full life.

I actually looked and couldn’t find the murder rate in the population of gun owners with basic googling but the actual number doesn’t matter when it’s being compared to 0.

Currently live in the Republic of Ireland and I have no idea what you’re talking about? Were you here on Saint Patrick’s Day? There’s a significant amount of Palestinian flags in windows here for pretty obvious reasons but other than that I don’t think I’ve seen a flag since, again, Paddy’s day.