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80 points

It’s actually quite crazy to see the amount of change Biden could get done even with out control of the legislative branch. Adding to that, the Republicans are in disarray too yet things still got done.

I’m surprised OP didn’t include the largest climate legislation in world history

I want to see another country or region beat us, as this would be welcome competition.

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57 points
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I’m surprised OP didn’t include the largest climate legislation in world history

New Infrastructure Law to Provide Billions to Energy Technology Projects

The bill spends enormous amounts on carbon capture projects that have historically produced lackluster results. It throws even more good money after bad on “clean hydrogen”, an absolute sinkhole of R&D over the last two decades. And then there’s the large investment in battery technology that’s… definitely better than the first two, but still relies on the kind of enormous strip mining and chemical processing projects that got us in the fossil fuels mess to begin with.

$12B on various kinds of carbon capture and $9.5B on hydrogen and another $6.5B on battery advancements, relative to the $0.4B spent on new renewable energy projects. Even our deplorable bankrupt nuclear programs get $2.5B, relative to technologies that have seen some of the best ROI on energy production since the ICE was invented.

Like, sure. Blah blah Trump Worse. But the Infrastructure Reinvestment Act is not a good bill by any other standard than “Better than what Republicans wanted”. Its the same bad California Tech Sector pipe dream ideas we’ve been flushing money down the toilet on since Bill Clinton was President.

I want to see another country or region beat us

You’ll find a line around the block. Spain’s sinking $89B in a renewable overhaul of its grid. France has been doing donuts around the US on nuclear power since the 70s. Italy’s completely overhauling its rail infrastructure (something Americans rip up more often than they rebuild) to use HVDC power.

Where the US tends to lead the pack is in private investment and that’s largely because Solar and Wind power built using cheap foreign imported steel and photovoltaics, have turned our decrepid electricity infrastructure into a gold mine of overpriced retail power. (Something new trade war restrictions may curtail in the next presidency).

The paradox in this is the threat that public investment and efficiency improvements in the grid threaten those profits. If you go around hooking up the fifth-gen molten salt nuclear power stations to an updated smart-balanced American grid, you’re going to tank the incomes of a litany of energy companies.

Nobody with a revenue stream coming from sky high auction-priced electricity coming of the Texas ERCOT system, for instance, wants us to slaughter the golden goose that is $3000 MWh peak electricity prices.

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7 points

Without hydrogen or battery storage how exactly do you want to store energy?

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6 points

Until renewable energy inputs approach the base load, there’s nothing to store.

After that, hydrogen is an awful storage medium because it’s so permiable. Even if you’re focused on long term energy storage needs, sodium and nickel batteries are proving far more efficient than hydrogen cells. We’ve known that since the 90s, but continue to invest wasted billion after wasted billion in a dead end technology.

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2 points
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enormous amounts on carbon capture projects that have historically produced lackluster results. It throws even more good money after bad on “clean hydrogen”, an absolute sinkhole of R&D

And yet both are desperately needed

  • we’re already zooming past our climate goals for carbon emission, and rapidly approaching all the dangers that entails. While not putting fossilized carbon in the atmosphere to begin with is far better, it’s naive to think that will be enough. If there’s a practical way to recover some of that atmospheric carbon, we need to find it and scale up fast
  • while we’ve found better technologies than hydrogen for personal transportation and power generation, there are still too many places we still need energy, where wires can’t go, batteries aren’t sufficient. Think of industrial uses like metal refining or concrete manufacturing, flying, shipping, construction, long distance trains, etc, that we don’t yet have a good solution for. Yes, even for storage: current storage technology is fantastic, but it’s not clear that it can scale. We do also need a hydrogen economy
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0 points

And yet both are desperately needed

If you want to benefit climate change from the perspective of new technology, cancel the battery technology patents horded by fossil fuel companies.

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8 points

All climate change bills are lipservice if we dont address the core problem, infinite growth capitalism.

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13 points

If it’s not perfect we should do nothing you’re right. /S

You want to address big problems? We need more Democrats in control of the Congress and executive branch. Republicans will always push us back untill their platform changes.

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12 points
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The second part of your statement is the problem. We dont JUST need more Democrats. We need BETTER Democrats.

Like I said, these 1/300th steps ARE THE COMPROMISE.

The current trajectory, even with Democrats in charge, is certain death of Humanity due to Climate change. Republicans will just do it faster.

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0 points

If you have more Democrats in power you can start to filter out the conservative and moderate Democrats. When we have the thinest majority possible, you can’t be picky with what gets passed as you need agreement from the full spectrum of Democrats. Manchin sucked as a Democrat. But he was vital in getting legislation passed that a Republican in his position wouldn’t pass.

Bringing this back to your original response, you’re complaining that any progress is bad if it doesn’t address the core issue, and I still disagree with that. Any progress is better than none and isn’t “lip service”, this is just how US government in reality works, you keep making larger more incremental steps. Our current steps aren’t sufficient, in that I believe you and I agree, but there will hopefully be better, stronger legislation to address root problems.

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0 points

If both paths are resulting in a radical shift in human life, if not its outright destruction, then now, there really is no point on debating which evil is lesser.

You neoliberals are actually insane on the climate issue.

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