lemm.ee

0 points

1 year ago

Honestly. I’m looking for vegan and vegetarian recipes and while it usually tastes “fine”, it’s mostly just “meh”.

If it’s about eating ethically, I highly suggest trying to eat locally instead. It’s much better for the environment, and you can usually get a better nutritional balance.

I mean, if eating “meh” makes you feel good, go for it. Just please make sure to study all the supplements you need and keep researching because there are regularly discoveries that might change the supplement intake you require.

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r1veRRR@feddit.de

3 points

1 year ago

Transport is a teensy tiny part of the climate/environmental impact for food. In 99.9% of cases, a plant-based food will beat out any meat from next door.

That being said, local in the sense things that actually grow locally and are in season is still a good idea, though more from a community building perspective.

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-3 points

1 year ago

Transport is a teensy tiny part of the climate/environmental impact for food

Food Transport is estimated to be as high as 3 gigatons tons of CO2 emissions per year, a full 20% of all food-related CO2 emissions. From my point of view (not considering all animal-related CO2 emissions as a single line-item), that makes transport the single largest cause of CO2 related impact in the entirety of agriculture/horticulture.

For context, ALL manure CO2 emissions is only 2.6 gigatons (full disclosure. I lost and re-found this link, and see another source estimates manure closer to 7B. I’m sure you know my thoughts on that. Food Transport is still of dominant significance and fertilizer impact cannot be that effectively reduced). And in many cases, that manure is less harmful to the environment, yes EVEN CO2 impact, than the other fertilizer options that replace it when used in crop farms.

There’s a strong argument for “less meat” being good for the environment, but I am convinced (in part from hands-on experience) that the only arguments for “no meat” being any good are entirely fabricated.

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https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local

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Vegoon@feddit.de

3 points

1 year ago

https://ourworldindata.org/food-ghg-emissions

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-1 points

1 year ago

I don’t agree with Hannah, in this case. Specifically, I challenge anyone who leaves cow methane on a chart or in an argument without covering the CO2 production by non-manure fertilizer or the fact that only depopulation will stop cows from pooping. And unfortunately, a plethora of studies are showing that synethetic fertilizer production creates massive amounts of methane gas as well. I’m fairly convinced she is (perhaps inadvertantly) including that under “cow farm” when it should be under “plant farm”.

She also just handwaves saying transport costs are low despite studies she opted not to cite or rebut that place them at 20%. But here’s the funny part. That was the first link. The second agrees with the 20% figure for logistics (though she uses the term “Supply Chain” and separates physical transport from processing, packaging, and retail storage (all of which are cut out or down from local). Digging into supply chain figures in the left article’s graph, she just disagrees with herself (and, to be honest, other experts).

In fact, the numbers on her second article suggest bias to me in her first article. She blames land use for 1/3 of beef GHG production. But in the second article, only 2/3 of Land Use GHG goes to animal, with the other 1/3 going to “land use for human food”. I’m sure you can see the next line. If Land Use is such a large part of meat GHG production and crops are so good at everything else, then Land Use should be dominant and in-your-face on the crop chart in the first article. Instead, apparently she’s undecided about that?

Look. I can see why you might decide that eating less meat might be the wrong choice for you. But when there are studies that say eating local is important and studies saying eating less meat is important, one article is not going to get me to change my entire life, and risk the environment, just to feel good about myself.

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Vegoon@feddit.de

0 points

1 year ago

or the fact that only depopulation will stop cows from pooping.

Yes. We kill 80 billions mammals and trillion fish each year and billions are lost to diseases, fire and low profitability. If the whole word would decide to not abuse animals farmers would gas or burn the animals. Once, and not the perpetual killing all meat eaters have no problem with, but the fantasy scenario where we stop killing is a problem?

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0 points

1 year ago

So you’re an anti-natalist? I try to avoid arguing with anti-natalist vegans because as morally disgusted as I am of their position, there is no way to convince them to change it.

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0 points

1 year ago

And unfortunately, a plethora of studies are showing that synethetic fertilizer production creates massive amounts of methane gas as we

Obviously, not only from the the Haber-Bosch process which is the most energy intensive single process worldwide, it is used for Ammoniak, nitrogen.

The mining of phosphor leaves huge wastelands and will be rare in about 100 hundred years if we continue.

But manure is not created from thin air. You need to feed animals a lot feed until you get something to eat back. It wastes 20 times more crop compared to plant based diet. Manure will not save us, it destroys nature, water and air.

The IPCC 2022 states even giving up every form of fossile fuel animal industry would push us over 3° increase.

I do not eat any animal products, but the main reason for it that I do not want to kill others if I can avoid it. I don’t want you to import any fancy exotic food for a plant based diet. I don’t, I get my potatoes from my neighbor and mostly buy local foods anyway. Don’t act like you can’t eat local plants and are therefore forced to eat others.

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-1 points

1 year ago

But manure is not created from thin air. You need to feed animals a lot feed until you get something to eat back. It wastes 20 times more crop compared to plant based diet. Manure will not save us, it destroys nature, water and air.

What exactly do you think we should plan to do with all the grass and waste product currently being used in feeding animals? There’s a complex web of dependency between plant and animal farming that I have seen firsthand, and all I ever hear is that cutting half that web off entirely will magically “Just word” and be better than what we have no. Most importantly, I’m convinced I eat carbon neutral even with eat, or at least as close to that as reasonably possible. And I’ve never seen a plan to scale to a world where meat eating is ended, and the massive inefficiencies that would introduce.

The IPCC 2022 states even giving up every form of fossile fuel animal industry would push us over 3° increase.

This is not preciately how I took it. Instead, I took it as more “we need to do everything we can, and the whole world going vegan is more likely than the other major sources”. Ultimately, we would already be in a good place if 7 businesses became carbon neutral. IPCC 2022 cited a LOWER number than most do for methane, only 14% of world methane, only 1/3 of human caused methane. The one or two “experts” I found who specifically pushed for sudden international veganism have also failed to account for the above issues I mentioned. I argue it’s easier to find technologies that can mitigate and reverse emissions than it is to find technologies to let the world cut out meat entirely.

I do not eat any animal products, but the main reason for it that I do not want to kill others if I can avoid it.

Which is absolutely your right. I have become convinced that my mixed diet leads to ultimately less death than a plant-based diet would (trolley problem), but it is not the foundation of my mixed-diet choice. I’m not an anti-natalist, and I’m perfectly fine with the quality of life a typical farm cow lives when compared to a cow in the wild when the alternative is to not be born at all. I know plenty of people who suffer in their lives more than a farm animal will, and yet never once think those people should never have been born.

don’t want you to import any fancy exotic food for a plant based diet. I don’t, I get my potatoes from my neighbor and mostly buy local foods anyway. Don’t act like you can’t eat local plants and are therefore forced to eat others.

Huh? I DO eat local plants. I have a farm down the road and buy almost all the produce we don’t grow there. When we do have to buy from retail establishments, we buy 99% of our produce locally. Yes, about once a year I buy a dragonfruit because it’s a guilty pleasure. So sue me.

But I also get eggs from my neighbor, and occasionally chicken. We have a deer overpopulation problem in my area. When I can, I pick up locally hunted deer from the butcher. My wife has PTSD and it triggers her regarding hunting, so I don’t hunt my own despite the fact she and I are morally on the same page as that. I support that because I consider it ethically better than being vegan because I believe pulling the lever on the trolley is always the right choice, and because I am convinced “what we have is ethical because it is better than the real world alternatives”. There is no trolley track without any bodies on it, in this world.

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