The chorus of condemnation was predictable and not in itself a problem: There’s nothing wrong with desiring a world without stochastic assassination attempts, even against political opponents. But when you have Israel’s minister of foreign affairs, Israel Katz of the fascistic ruling Likud Party, tweeting, “Violence can never ever be part of politics,” the very concept of “political violence” is evacuated of meaning.
The problem is not so much one of hypocrisy or insincerity — vices so common in politics that they hardly merit mention. The issue, rather, is what picture of “political violence” this messaging serves: To say that “political violence” has “no place” in a society organized by political violence at home and abroad is to acquiesce to the normalization of that violence, so long as it is state and capitalist monopolized.
As author Ben Ehrenreich noted on X, “There is no place for political violence against rich, white men. It is antithetical to everything America stands for.”
@t3rmit3 So political violence is justifiable when democracy is at risk, right. What happens if the side abolishing democracy decides that political violence can be justified for them too? How can you save democracy this way? We legitimate political violence in order to justify democracy? Will it still be a democracy if the elected candidate can be gunned down legitimately? What about if the candidate has the biggest chance of winning?
And also, how can you justify democracy as the better option in front of non-democratic states that are also making use of political violence to repress their opponents? Don’t you think these countries would be more determined in their suppressions when they see that the good guys are also doing it?
And last, but not least, does that freedom to self-determine as a group also involve becoming politically violent against your opponent? To which extent is this still a democracy and not a fight for power by all means?
So political violence is justifiable when democracy is at risk, right.
Obviously, yes? If this was an outside group attempting to invade and impose authoritarian rule, I don’t think anyone would be debating this point, but because it’s an internal one…
What happens if the side abolishing democracy decides that political violence can be justified for them too?
Hmm, you mean like has already happened?
How can you save democracy this way?
Are you under the impression that democracy was always the way that governments operated, until displaced? Authoritarianism (whether monarchy, feudalism, fascism, or otherwise) has to be actively dismantled in order to create the space for democracy.
Will it still be a democracy if the elected candidate can be gunned down legitimately? What about if the candidate has the biggest chance of winning?
Assassinations are an action that occurs to protect a given status quo. They occur in or out of democracies. They are orthogonal to Democracy.
And also, how can you justify democracy as the better option in front of non-democratic states that are also making use of political violence to repress their opponents?
Political violence by the state is different than political violence by the people.
And last, but not least, does that freedom to self-determine as a group also involve becoming politically violent against your opponent? To which extent is this still a democracy and not a fight for power by all means?
What do you think Project2025 already is?
I’m not arguing that this person was right to do what they did (or tried to do), I’m arguing that this rhetoric of the unacceptability of political violence is just the State protecting its own power, and its own position as the “legitimate” arbiter of political violence.
@t3rmit3 My server is dead today, so I cannot reply from my main account.
Obviously, yes? […]
I gasped for a moment, but yes, we are talking about internal violence committed by a group of people inside that country.
Hmm, you mean like has already happened?
How exactly has it already happened, more specifically, during this election? Did anyone try to shoot Biden or any Democrat in this campaign?
Assassinations are an action that occurs to protect a given status quo.
This is highly debatable. The nazis, fascists, legionnaires did a lot of politically motivated crimes in order to get in power. Does that make them the protectors of the status quo? What about various terrorist organizations around the world? What about people trying to kill Hitler? Anyway, I won’t go on with this because it is more of a separate discussion.
But do you think that a state that doesn’t have this ability of protecting its own power and its own monopoly on violence would be a safer, freer and more just to its people than a state that has it? Do you think that such a state could protect marginalized, smaller and weaker groups better than a state that has this monopoly of violence?
January 6th was a massive occurrence of political violence, involving hundreds of right wing agitators and would-be assassins, had they managed to actually get ahold of any congresspersons. They literally were chanting to kill the vice president.
But do you think that a state that doesn’t have this ability of protecting its own power and its own monopoly on violence would be a safer, freer and more just to its people than a state that has it?
Yes, absolutely. Without a monopoly on violence, it would be hard pressed to be anything but that, because it would have to actively vie for the power to do those things.
States are intrinsically hierarchical, and hierarchy doesn’t like sharing power. It will grab/create more and more authority, using any means (but mainly violence). The entire history of the 20th century (and it’s looking like the 21st as well) is one giant chronicle of state violence against minorities, other states, and any citizens who disagree with the first 2.
Do you think that such a state could protect marginalized, smaller and weaker groups better than a state that has this monopoly of violence?
I think you’ve got the question backwards. States are the worst instigators of violence against marginalized, smaller, and weaker groups, and when they do this, it takes massive wars to stop them (or, as we see in Gaza, they just don’t get stopped).
Imperialism, Colonialism, Fascism, Authoritarianism… Those aren’t words primarily used to describe the actions of non-state actors.
