If we can’t have a fact based conversation about anything then I don’t know what the point is. As a leftie this type of rhetoric really saddens me. I thought we were better than the Maga crowd.
If you want to have a fact based conversation, it would be nice if you came with facts instead of just claiming they exist.
If you want to discuss about what kind of killing is worth calling murder, it would be nice if you explained your position.
Your original comment is incredibly passive-aggressive.
Thanks. I want to get better so if the way I replied came across as passive aggressive then it’s something I need to work on.
I’ve tried having a factual discussion on this instance about the topic in the past but I ended up spending the whole time arguing if I’m a conservative in disguise or not and honestly that’s the most I can get out of this platform. If you have any tips on a better approach I’m all ears. I really want to get my messaging to a better place.
I guess the main thing is that if you’re going to argue for something very unpopular, rather than arguing for the sake of your opponent as they are today, argue for the sake of uncommitted onlookers and for the sake of the opponent a week from now after they’ve had time to calm down and reprocess. Respond to their arguments, of course, but do it in a way that illustrates to less polarized people that you’ve got a point, rather than trying to convince your opponent or finding specific errors in the opponent’s reasoning/self-justification.
When an issue is as polarized as this, people very rarely switch sides publicly (unless they’re shilling and they didn’t hold the original position to begin with), but people can cringe from the side making bad arguments, quietly distancing themselves, and a few months or years later show up on a different side.
If you want that side to be your side, it’s nice to present a pipeline that does that. People who cringe from bottom-of-the-barrel leftist discourse can fall into alt-right pipelines, which you presumably don’t want, so ideally you would want to have examples of (leftist) influencers whose takes you find reasonable, ideally on the case itself. For example, LegalEagle (“it is plausible that the jury was right that murder under Wisconsin law was not proven beyond reasonable doubt”).
The hate is not really avoidable except by forgoing this venue or not arguing your point, but like with the hate thrown towards peaceful climate activists, it is not a sign that you’re doing a bad job.
Facts are important, but it’s not possible to come with only the ones you prefer. You need to make room for more.
- He obtained firearms illegally, from people who encouraged him to take violent action throughout his upbringing.
- He didn’t believe he was acting valorous, he thought he was going to get to shoot people.
- It turned out very different than he expected and he did what he was conditioned to do, it was murder and it was in self defense. It was very sad.
- He’s since gone on to gloat about it and threaten to do stuff like that again.
That people are looking at all this and thinking it seems like premeditated murder that turned into a panicked self defense (except with a literal killing weapon on hand, which he brought!) is perfectly reasonable.
To be honest, debating it feels gross. It seems more sensible to just recognize that it makes sense people would feel this way, and move on. Regardless of what the courts say, this conclusion makes total sense.
I have you tagged as [Conservative] so I don’t mistake you for someone worth having a discussion with.
So as a person on the left I cannot fact check anything that gets repeated on our side? I don’t understand this need to silence people so hard because they asked a question or have a disagreement with a position. It’s truly bizarre. If it makes you feel better to label me something and that’s the best you can do, go ahead.
The only thing you’re to the left of is the authoritarian fuckwits you’re fellating.
Nobody wants to have a conversation with you. It was just a check if people like you are still around. You confirmed. No more conversation is needed. Nobody is required to waste their breath on you.
Then don’t position yourself as above the Maga crowd. You are all the same.
It’s mostly just this place. You find this tribalist response on a lot of topics here. Other instances aren’t as cultish. Good on you for arguing your case, but it falls on deaf ears. The discourse could use some improvements
I voted for Bernie in the 'primary, I voted for Biden and I’m voting for Kamala. Trump is a piece of shit insurrectionist that should not be on the ballot.
If every time someone on your side points a criticism you do this game, it’s the exact same thing the Maga crowd does with labeling anti - trump Republicans as RINOS.
If all you care about is labels and how fast you can pin someone in a box so you don’t have to engage with a conversation that says more about you.
I’m quoting you here:
“As a European that lived in America briefly (ten years) I was very shocked when I encountered the gun culture there.”
“I voted for Bernie in the 'primary, I voted for Biden and I’m voting for Kamala. Trump is a piece of shit insurrectionist that should not be on the ballot.“
How are these two things possible without you being a liar?
People have engaged with your comments. The ardent defense of Rittenhouse does not match with progressivism.
Especially in context of Rittenhouse becoming a right wing hero and not regretting his actions.
