After months of debate in Washington, Ukraine looks set to be getting its hands on this lethal Western fighter very soon. The first batch of F-16s will be arriving in Ukraine in late September, and NATO secretary general Jens Stoltenberg said that the training of Ukrainian personnel has already started.
Unpopular opinion: we shouldn’t be sending more murder machines to a war. All it will do is kill more people in name of some power struggle that should not concern them.
Ukraine has also received and used cluster munitions, which is really bad. I remember that there was a lot of outrage when Assad used them in Syria. Now that it’s the West, media just glances over the fact that these munitions cause so much civilian death or even support the usage, regardless of how awful they are.
Sure, but I’m not critiquing the Ukrainian people. I’m critiquing the west that is escalating a conflict that’s not theirs.
They were invaded, it’s their land, their people, they can do anything they want to defend them. Russia was using cluster munitions against civilians at least as early as the second week of the invasion, and they’ve also been dropping butterfly mines all along which look like toys and kids find.
If Ukraine asks for it, they can have it, they’re the ones who have to live with the consequences anyway.
Mostly agree with you but some context is required
Cluster bombs historically have a 30% failure rate. The modern American ones have ~1%.
Historically they were used indiscriminately against unknown targets in a large area (they’re really good at that), in Ukraine the Ukrainians are using them against known targets and are logging their use so after the war the area can be cleaned of any duds.
This also isn’t introducing a new weapon to the war; the Ukrainians and Russians have been using their own stocks of cluster bombs from the start, the Ukrainians are just asking for a resupply of the better American ones.
What’s your alternative solution to dealing with the situation in Ukraine? Genuinely curious.
Aim for de-escalation, create a situation where both sides can save face and settle on borders that support that.
Why does Ukraine need to save face? Why does Ukraine need to give up any territory?
Now that it’s the West, media just glances over the fact
Which media are you consuming? Talkshows discuss that for hours and News shows always mentioned the problem of cluster ammo.
the fact that these munitions cause so much civilian death
No civilians will get killed by this munition from the US. Ukrainians use them on invading soldiers on evacuated land.
Russia used cluster ammo first and uses it for offense. Ukraine is using it for defense.
That’s the whole issue: Ukraine changed A LOT in the last 30 years and wants to belong to the west. And the west thinks so aswell. But Russia can’t accept it and has to learn once and for all, that bullying a satellite country doesn’t bind it to russia (Watch Belarus, it’ll be next). Also Russia thinks it can just force Ukraine to like russia and associate with it. Europe can’t tolerate this and will go to full lengths to teach Russia.
Now you are promoting to forsake a weaker victim for the sake of peace (your peace, not peace for Ukraine). You’re completely ignoring what russia does to civilians on conquered land. History (Germany, Afghanistan, Syria, Mali) should make it clear that the killing won’t end when Ukraine fails to push Russia back.
Quite the opposite. Bucha shows, it will just start the slaughterfest.