lemm.ee

5 points

1 month ago

The problem is not code. The problem is that no one wants to take this responsibility. Every one wants to talk about supportive they are on sex positivity until some men in uniform knocks on their doors because they are running a website that is available for minors all around the world.

Also, I don’t even want to get in the discussion of “sex positivity” being associated with “easily available porn”. Like you said, porn is easy to find and I really doubt that the someone who is savvy enough to use Lemmy would have trouble to know where it is.

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cacheson 🏴🔁🍊@piefed.social

[ - ]

4 points

1 month ago

Every one wants to talk about supportive they are on sex positivity until some men in uniform knocks on their doors because they are running a website that is available for minors all around the world.

Are you speaking from first-hand experience, or is this conjecture? At least in the US, complying with the law isn’t that difficult.

Also, I don’t even want to get in the discussion of “sex positivity” being associated with “easily available porn”.

That’s an odd way to avoid discussing it. Do you think the availability of porn (or prohibition thereof) within an online space has no effect on what kind of culture develops there?

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[ - ]

2 points

1 month ago

Do you think the availability of porn within an online space has no effect on what kind of culture develops there?

Of course it does have an effect, but there is a difference between “can be found” and “should be encouraged to be treated on equal footing as any other community forum”.

Much like “absolute freedom of speech” platforms that inevitably end up catering to people who want to say only repulsive things without repercussion, what do you think will happen if you create an online space and put a big billboard saying “here you will always be free to share your NSFW content”?

Content discovery of porn should not be as easy and it should not be trivialized under the pretense of “sex positivity”. One can have an absolutely open mind about sex and sexuality while still wanting to keep a clear boundary of when/how/whom to talk about it.

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cacheson 🏴🔁🍊@piefed.social

[ - ]

2 points

1 month ago

You seem to be implying that I’m arguing something that I’m not? This thread started with me lamenting that piefed.social accounts are prohibited from accessing NSFW communities, and inquiring whether feddit.online would have the same policies. Along with some commentary on the general state of the threadiverse’s culture.

Note that I haven’t asked either admin to host said communities, and I specifically acknowledged the caching issue. Nor am I advocating for them to be treated on absolutely equal footing; they’re specially marked so that people who don’t want to see them can filter them out, which I think is a good thing.

what do you think will happen if you create an online space and put a big billboard saying “here you will always be free to share your NSFW content”?

If you’re specifically advertising it as focused on that, then that’s likely what you’ll get. If you allow NSFW but don’t center it, you’ll end up with something like Reddit, Twitter, or pre-ban Tumblr. While there are things to criticize about those sites, very little of it has to do with porn.

Content discovery of porn should not be as easy and it should not be trivialized under the pretense of “sex positivity”.

Why? That absolutely sounds like a sex-negative attitude to me. It’s treating sexuality as something toxic that needs to be suppressed and hidden even from those that are interested in seeing it. Sex positivity means treating sexuality as a normal thing that is not unusual for people to be interested in.

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[ - ]

3 points

1 month ago

advocating for them to be treated on absolutely equal footing; they’re specially marked so that people who don’t

You lamented the fact that unlogged users can not see it and that they can not be found as easily. This is the same as “make it available to the public without any type of check”.

It’s treating sexuality as something toxic

Sexuality != Porn, and “toxicity” is dose-dependent. Eating a bit of broccoli is good for you. Too much at once and you get thyroid dysfunction.

There are plenty of things that are good and normal, but need to be discussed/presented with a proper context and (most importantly) people need to have a better understanding of the potential bad consequences if it is abused or corrupted.

You don’t see young people destroying their lives because they were promised they could make a lot of money by knitting sweaters or working as electricians, but cases of vulnerable women who regret getting into sex work are infinite.

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cacheson 🏴🔁🍊@piefed.social

[ - ]

0 points

1 month ago

You lamented the fact that unlogged users can not see it and that they can not be found as easily. This is the same as “make it available to the public without any type of check”.

Behold! (nsfw) - no login required, just an “are you 18+?” prompt, which is pretty standard. You can also search for NSFW communities without logging in. If you’re being more moralistic about this than Reddit is, you’re probably taking it too far.

Sexuality != Porn

Porn ∈ Sexuality. Also, I intentionally used a broader term here, because what I’m advocating for is expansive, not restricted to just porn. For example, I miss r/bdsmcommunity and r/sex, which are discussion-only. However, you don’t get those kinds of communities growing in a place as structurally and culturally prudish as the threadiverse.

“toxicity” is dose-dependent.

Yeah, porn is about on par with video games in that regard. Yet we (rightly) don’t suppress gaming communities here.

You don’t see young people destroying their lives because they were promised they could make a lot of money by knitting sweaters or working as electricians, but cases of vulnerable women who regret getting into sex work are infinite.

C’mon, don’t get all SWERFy on me now. That regret is a direct result of (drum roll)… sex negative culture! (And capitalist labor exploitation.)

“If you think sex workers ‘sell their bodies,’ but coal miners do not, your view of labor is clouded by your moralistic view of sexuality.”

Look, I want a world in which, to the extent that jobs continue to be a thing, acting in commercial porn is just as normal and unremarkable as any other job, and people don’t get all judgy about it. Same (hopefully robust) labor protections too. We don’t get to there without abandoning pearl-clutching attitudes towards the resulting product, among other things.

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[ - ]

1 point

1 month ago

“If you think sex workers ‘sell their bodies,’ but coal miners do not, your view of labor is clouded by your moralistic view of sexuality.”

If you are going to start a conversation by attacking a strawman, then I really will not get into it.

acting in commercial porn is just as normal and unremarkable as any other job

If this is your idea of being “sex positive” then I really do not want to get into this argument. I can guess this will quickly play out to any objection as “pearl clutching” and I will stick to the point that your attitude is completely dehumanizing and that there is nothing “positive” about reducing sex to the mechanical/physical act.

Like I said in the first comment, if you feel so strongly about this, go ahead and create your own and see how far it goes. When you start putting some Skin In The Game you will get more credibility or at least accept that things are Just Not That Simple.

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