There is certainly a right answer, my body, my choice. Get out of here trying to reason with the pro life side. There is no discussion. There is no compromise, there is no trying to understand those fools. My body, my choice no more discussion. That’s all the discussion we need
They absolutely do. They absolutely absolutely do. And society gets to have a boundary that says we don’t want unvaccinated people in our society. So those people who want to choose to not be vaccinated can go somewhere else.
Is this the same as “if you want to have an abortion, go somewhere else”? Why or why not?
You do, but you don’t get to send your infectious brat to public school, and you might not get to drag your infectious ass into somebody else’s private property, like for example the place where you work, or into a regulated public space such as a government office. But you will not be held down and vaccinated against your will. 'kay?
Setting up a Sophie’s Choice does not support what you think you’re saying. If I crafted some extreme consequence for choosing to have an abortion-- while still allowing it, would you support that?
The underlying presumption with “my body, my choice” is that there aren’t applied consequences for making the choice, no?
One affects other people, the other does not. Get out of here with your debate, my body, my choice.
It might depend on what you mean by forced, but I meant it more as a hypothetical. the “my body, my choice” argument doesn’t logically differentiate between the two things. Which is why it’s ineffective at convincing people to support choice.
Sure, HOWEVER, not being vaccinated puts society as a whole at risk. So, there are two options, be part of society, and get vaccinated, OR, don’t get vaccinated, and don’t be part of society. It’s like wearing clothes in public. I sure as fuck don’t want to wear clothes, like ever, but I do, so I can be part of society.
An abortion affects the mother ONLY. Not an apples to apples comparison at all.
An anti-vaxxer does have a choice, but so does the society around them. If you do not vax you run the potential of carrying a larger load of a decease that can harm and/or kill me and/or my family simply for having been in the same space as you. I do not want that risk and if enough of society believe that risk to be too great, then you, the anti-vaxxer, must vacate the public space.
Abortion is explicitly different as, for one, it doesn’t physically effect any other human being except the mother. Now, beyond my feeling that this question is quite explicitly a smug attempt at a “got ya” question, in the case of an abortion, the Mother is the whole of society, and, like in the anti-vaxxer case, the society gets to determine what’s best for the whole… to be clear, that means the Mother has sole determination to whether to carry a pregnancy or to abort.
Abortion is explicitly different as, for one, it doesn’t physically effect any other human being except the mother.
Is this true? You can’t think of any other party that is involved?
no one forced you to wear a mask. women ae being forced to carry their rapists child. comparing yourself to them is pretty fucked up.
That isn’t what I said or what I did.
Does “My body, my choice” also apply to anti vaxxers? Do you support the stance that they should get to decide what to do with their body when it comes to vaccines, without any government punishment for making that choice?
If not, then what kind of defense is “my body, my choice”, really? A pretty weak one, right? Because it’s obviously not universally applied, so you need to defend why some instances it’s not “my body, my choice” and some instances it is. If you’re going to need to defend the defense, you might as well just drop the “my body, my choice” defense altogether and directly defend why it’s wrong.
And since it seems that if I don’t say it in every comment it will immediately be forgotten: I am pro choice. I do not believe the government should have the power to force people to undergo medical procedures against their will-- especially birth, but not limited to birth. I think even anti-choicers would be horrified if someone suggested that the government be allowed to force people to undergo organ donations to “save a life”; they just haven’t put 2 and 2 together. Which is my point-- that pro-choice people make bad choices when it comes to defending their position on abortion. It’s very often a complete dismissal without even an effort to explain.
Yes, from the comfort of their own home.
It’s also other people’s choice to not be sprayed with an anti-vaxxers disease.
If you think you can force your subjective will on billions of people by plugging your ears and shouting “I’m right” you’re going to be very disappointed by life.
There is truth in all perspectives and denying that helps no one, including yourself.
The irony of saying this when being pro life is forcing an exclusively Christian belief on other people.
There is no one Christian opinion now or any time history about abortion. But if you want to go with Augustine, Thomas Aquinas and Pope Innocent III early abortion before quickening was not a sin as per the two latter that is when the fetus is ensouled. That is around the middle of the second trimester. Popes Sixtus V and Stephen V both were against it at any point. Luther seems to be against it at any point.
