You claim that there is no proof for a cultural genocide against the uyghurs.
Right here: “Well… never found any evidence of genocide, cultural genocide, or anything coming close to such things”.
Above, I’ve linked proof provided by the CCP showing uyghurs not allowed to speak their language, practice their religion, and the Chinese officials in charge of that camp saying that they detained innocent uyghurs before they commit crime because they might commit a crime later.
Cultural genocide is the genocide of a culture, in case you find the term too oblique. By indefinitely detaining free and innocent people until they stop practicing their culture and begin practicing the culture approved by the CCP, the CCP is practicing cultural genocide, contrary to your claim.
Strangely(but I appreciate it) you subsequently backpedal and you even agree with me that “uyghur culture is being dismantled very rapidly.”
Yes, thank you, I agree.
I never claimed you didn’t believe in the existence of Uyghur concentration camps; I asked you how, with video and journalistic evidence of the concentration camps(where cultural genocide is occurring), do you still not believe in that evidence of cultural genocide.
*CPC (Communist Party of China is the official term)
Read my other reply first; this is part two. You claim that Zenz’s studies on Uyghurs haven’t been disproven, but this is incorrect, they are accepted because they fit a narrative. For one, Zenz has deliberately lied about China in the past, like claiming that the Chinese government was trying to suppress the fact that COVID-19 was transmissible between humans, despite China confirming this fact a day earlier. For refutations of his research, see [1] and [2]. It genuinely seems like you’re just ignorant, but maybe I’m wrong. Hope to see a reply.
I understand the points you’re trying to make, but they fall apart very quickly in light of regional, global and historical context.
I’ve read and watched all of your links, and I’m replying with regard to your requested order.
Why are the Chinese throwing specifically Uyghurs into concentration camps and destroying their culture when there are so many minorites to oppress? Three big reasons: 1) Uyghurs look radically different than han Chinese, they look middle eastern and european rather than other minority ethnicities in China. 2) 94 percent of the Chinese population lives on the east coast of China. Uyghurs, 3000 miles west and thousands of miles closer geographically to Europe and the Middle East, are uniquely positioned to open diplomatic ties with other countries, 3) historically culturally distinct from the rest of China(being Muslim and near Europe, Uyghur schools taught multiple languages from a young age). Because of this relative academic excellence at the time,(distinguishing the rest of china) xinjiang was the only province of China not completely physically dismantled by mao during his rampage against “old culture”. Uyghur education was a good example for mao to point to. Now, the CCP is violently enforcing a homogeneous culture.
Being so far away from 94 percent of the Chinese population, historically disinterested in being part of China, being culturally distinct from China, and being in a position to easily open ties with Europe and the Middle East, with a 3-thousand mile head start on the CCP, makes Xinjiang a natural third major target for a dictatorial government trying to consolidate power. China has already attacked the first and second targets, Taiwan and Hong Kong. Although Taiwanese industry, infrastructure and diplomatic ties progress beyond the CCPs control; Taiwan has their own military, a distinct culture, western ties, and are even recognized as a separate country, so the CCP does what they can to suppress and discredit Taiwan without a full-on invasion. Hong Kong has Western ties and a distinct culture, and a large, concentrated population, but no military, so the CCP has passed incredibly broad and vague retroactive “anti-terrorism” laws that allow them to forcefully invade and occupy Hong Kong and extradite any Hong Kong citizen for any reason from Hong Kong to mainland China, to be detained indefinitely without any appeal in court. How about Xinjiang citizens? Culturally and physiologically distinct from other Chinese citizens, geographically far away from the CCP, and in a position to expand their influence even as they call for independence, but no separate military, a relatively small population, and no significant ties to powerful countries. So the CCP labels them terrorists, invades them, destroys cultural buildings that define the uyghurs as obviously a different culture, throw at least 10% of the population into re-education camps(make sure the politicians and professors are among that 10%), limit their transportation and track all the rest of them.
If you look at more than just the number of ethnicities in China, it makes perfect sense why the CCP is persecuting this specific minority: for the same reasons they’re persecuting, Taiwanese and Hong Kong citizens, except the Uyghurs have less resistance capabilities.
Since you asked about the hui specifically, they are terrified of being attacked next, since there was no provocation or necessity for the concentration camps in xinjiang other than uyghur physiological and cultural difference. The hui, however, look more like Han Chinese and have not advocated independence from China, unlike the uyghurs.
As for the US interest in Xinjiang, yes, that ties directly into one of the reasons stated above the CCP is specifically attacking Uyghurs. Wilkerson explains how the CIA could destabilize the CCP through Xinjiang, but It’s just as likely that the US would keep military on the western edge of a hostile, powerful country as the US military does with other powerful countries (3000 US soldiers recently sent to the western boundary of Russian influence with directions not to engage). Not engaging, but there. Wilkerson says that Xinjiang is an easy entry point to China, which yes it is, a lot easier than anywhere on the east coast.
The energy artery is no longer as significant as Edmonds makes it out to be, with regard to energy developments and energy investments in the last decade in the east of China. She’s also agreeing that Xinjiang is an important region for the CCP with ties to other countries. That is why the CCP wants to control xinjiang completely and erase any trace of independence.
As for no cultural genocide going on, not being allowed to speak your language, forced to pledge allegiance to the CCP, not allowed to wear your own clothing, and the cultural buildings(at least 10,000 mosques so far) that have been destroyed speak louder than the lack of evidence you’re providing.
It’s fine if you don’t like the BBC, but their video is of a re-education camp detaining Uyghurs, created by China to culturally repress Xinjiang citizens, and the Chinese officials in charge of that particular camp admit the Xinjiang citizens may be detained without cause indefinitely. Whatever you think of the BBC, that’s what is being shown in that video sanctioned by the CCP of a camp sanctioned and exhibited by the CCP. Similar documentaries(often longer than the BBC News statement) are available by vice news and other news organizations.
Seems like whoever wrote that article you linked to just really hates that one BBC presenter and does nothing to discredit the actual content of the video.
As for zenz, your argument is that the cultural genocide against Uyghurs zenz claims hasn’t been disproven because his studies have been accepted. Which doesn’t address the fact that his studies have not been disproven.
I get that you don’t like Zenz, he seems bombastic, and I don’t care about him personally at all(data over tweets for me), but I don’t think that has a bearing on what the CCP is doing to the uyghurs.
Side note - what are you talking about with zenz being a day late? China announced covid-19 human transmissibility in January 2019 afaik, and that tweet is from May. Is that 5 month gap what you mean by “the day after”?
PART 2
3: Evidence]
As for no cultural genocide going on, not being allowed to speak your language, forced to pledge allegiance to the CCP, not allowed to wear your own clothing, and the cultural buildings(at least 10,000 mosques so far) that have been destroyed speak louder than the lack of evidence you’re providing.
Talking about “lack of evidence” in a paragraph like this that should be loaded with links is strange. Please cite your source for the demolition of 10,000 mosques (reminding us of claims which swept Western media in 2019 only to be proven false, “wear your own clothing” (of which the only reference I can find was one of the signs of extremism being: “wearing, or compelling others to wear, burqas with face coverings” (XUAR de-extremification regulations), which is not traditional Uyghur clothing), and not being allowed to speak one’s one language (maybe a reference to the the teaching of Mandarin as a skill in VCs so that business can be done between regions and prefectures, although there is no law forbidding one from speaking Uyghur).
Why is there no mention whatsoever of the AP News article and the notes by The New Atlas I linked? Here’s another article with a lot of sources.
4: British Broadcasting Corp.]
Seems like whoever wrote that article you linked to just really hates that one BBC presenter and does nothing to discredit the actual content of the video.
The presenter is the one providing context. And sure you can watch the video on mute but I don’t think you’ll get the same picture (and you won’t get the lies about graffiti which really give the video its signature edge). The commentary is the video. You should note the Uyghur language script and instruction in the facility (with Mandarin being taught), of which you wouldn’t be aware otherwise, which calls into question your claim that Uyghurs are not allowed to speak their own language.
In your original comment linking the documentary, you said:
Above, I’ve linked proof provided by the CCP showing uyghurs not allowed to speak their language, practice their religion, and the Chinese officials in charge of that camp saying that they detained innocent uyghurs before they commit crime because they might commit a crime late… how, with video and journalistic evidence of the concentration camps(where cultural genocide is occurring), do you still not believe in that evidence of cultural genocide.
Now we’re aware that your claim that the video showed proof of not being allowed to speak one’s language was false (instead teaching Mandarin for employment opportunities with Uyghur still present). It wasn’t the “video proof”, but the commentary that convinced you of this. And where is the evidence that Uyghurs can’t practice their religion? And which concentration camps do you know of where “inmates” leave on weekends (we see this in the video)? The video shows no evidence of any of your claims. I can only assume that, contrary to your claims, you in fact didn’t read the article, as you didn’t backtrack on any of this, much less the words on prevention of crime by an official which you cited as undeniable proof of wrongdoing and cultural genocide despite the article addressing this and showing how it was misrepresented by the BBC commentator. The article I linked isn’t an additional source of information, it’s a demonstration of dishonesty by analysis that I could have repeated again in my comment, but I figured this wasn’t necessary since it had already been done. I guess if you don’t explain something twice it doesn’t get through.
Note: Why would China allow foreign press entrance into a facility in which they were supposedly performing genocide?
5: Adrian Zenz]
As for zenz, your argument is that the cultural genocide against Uyghurs zenz claims hasn’t been disproven because his studies have been accepted. Which doesn’t address the fact that his studies have not been disproven.
I think there is a misunderstanding here. I was addressing your assumption that his studies were not disproven (which was based on the fact of their acceptance by the mainstream in the West); his research had been disproven, as shown for instance in the two articles linked in my original comment. I would assume that this mistake is because you didn’t see my second reply (also indicated by the continued use of ‘CCP’ as opposed to ‘CPC’), but I only addressed Zenz in that comment, so this can’t be the case.
Your ‘side note’ is really just another mistake (also the correct date is Jan. 2020, not Jan. 2019; and I said “a day earlier”, not “the day after”). The tweet I linked is from a third party comparing Zenz’s tweet (Jan. 21, 2020) to a NYT headline (Jan. 20, 2020). The third party tweet is from May, but the “day earlier” comment refers to the actual content: Zenz’s tweet vs. the NYT article, of which the latter appeared a day before the former. So no, this is not the “five month gap” I meant by “a day earlier.”
